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FROM THE LINK:

CONFIRMED MEETING LOCATIONS, TIMES AND DATES FOR THE FJ ROUTE PLANNING ARE BELOW.

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 24
6:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Barros Pizza
15440 N. 7th Street, Phx
(in a strip mall on the northwest corner of 7th STREET & Coral Gables just south of Greenway)

SATURDAY, JANUARY 27
1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.
El Galeon Restaurant
1526 E. Main Street, Mesa
(North side of Main Street 2 blks west of Gilbert)

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 31 (if needed)
6:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
El Galeon Restaurant
1526 E. Main Street, Mesa
(North side of Main Street 2 blks west of Gilbert)

I will have the computer with the Evaluation Data as well as the maps that correspond. What I need from all of you is specific information regarding each trail.

I would like someone to start the action with a specific trail. I will be at the computer listing all the issues or data each can apply.

After we compile all we have we can put it together in a Proposed Plan. Each meeting will have a sign in sheet and each of these will be included in the proposed plan.

Any additional ideas are appreciated.
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Sandee
 

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Sooo...Hunters are discouraged by OHV use...with out a motorized vehicle access hunting activity drops 99.9%...mountain lion population and other preditor population gets out of control and consumes all the "species of concern". Meanwhile the only person who gets to appreciate the beauty of martinez canyon is some hippie who enjoys his "solitude" who will likely be attacked and consumed by a hungry mountain lion.
 

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I hate hippies, let the ML have them. However the poor ML would probably end up choaking on their nappy hair and die, so problem solved. We really don't need hunters at all. We can get rid of the the hunters and the predators all in one shot...
 

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Discussion Starter #13

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AZrockbum said:
Sooo...Hunters are discouraged by OHV use...with out a motorized vehicle access hunting activity drops 99.9%...mountain lion population and other preditor population gets out of control and consumes all the "species of concern". Meanwhile the only person who gets to appreciate the beauty of martinez canyon is some hippie who enjoys his "solitude" who will likely be attacked and consumed by a hungry mountain lion.

I`m not really a people person, and like going to out of the way places to see things most people-let alone Americans don`t see...all of my vacation time goes to it :D so that make me a hippie? :xsmokin1: :D

I also pickup trash that I see when I`m out, every weekend. :mad:
Miss hunting ALOT. Go to walmart for a license (and an the bonus tag) and havin a gut pile within 4 hours :rolleyes:
 

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padesertboy said:
I`m not really a people person, and like going to out of the way places to see things most people-let alone Americans don`t see...all of my vacation time goes to it :D so that make me a hippie? :xsmokin1: :D

I also pickup trash that I see when I`m out, every weekend. :mad:
Miss hunting ALOT. Go to walmart for a license (and an the bonus tag) and havin a gut pile within 4 hours :rolleyes:

No it makes you an outdoorsman who appreciates the outdoors. The difference is being willing to share with others. And drive instead of walking barefoot.
 

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My Letter to azwild.org

It's a little winded, but I thought some of you might like to read. Sorry in advance for this post being so long :eek:

I just got a link to your newsletter from a 4 wheeling group I belong to and I’m utterly confused about what your organization supports. I see that you are proponents of keeping lands open for all to enjoy. Well, let me correct that…not “all” can enjoy the lands under what you support. Disabled people that can only access these lands by vehicle can’t enjoy them if you keep closing roads. Nor can people that are not in as good shape as others or the elderly enjoy the wilderness that you fight to protect. What about the children that are not avid hikers that can’t make the long trek and need to get there by a vehicle? It sounds like you only want a certain percentage of the population to enjoy these lands. And with the majority of Americans being overweight in an obese society, that is a small percentage.

Do you also support the closing of Queen Creek for mining? That is an area that should be protected, but unfortunately it is not. What about McDowell Mountain? My grandmother lives near there and every time I visit her I get more and more disgusted with the amount of desert the developers are destroying to build their new city. It’s only a matter of time before they start blasting mountains to make room for a shopping mall and a new sports arena.

I moved to Arizona in 1996 and started rock climbing in 1998 in Queen Creek. I have attended several of the Phoenix Bouldering Competitions in Queen Creek and have climbed virtually everything in Marty Karibin’s guide book for the area. One of the areas in the guide book hosts the best rock climbing in the entire area: Lower Devil’s Canyon. The only way to get there is either hike the road about 3 miles with 50-70 lbs. of gear on your back, or drive a 4WD vehicle into the area. After one hike in and out of the place on a nice summer day at 110 degrees and dry on water, I quickly decided that it would be better to drive in. That way, I could actually have time to climb that day. The hike took us so long and so grueling that we didn’t even get to climb that day…and that’s the whole reason we hiked there in the first place! On a later date I went in with a friend that had a Jeep and we actually got to climb…AMAZING!!! That place is absolutely beautiful, secluded, and the climbing is top-notch! I make an effort to go out there every chance I get now. I immediately fell in love with the area and had to sell my car to get a Jeep so I spend some more time back there. My very first camping trip ever was at Lower Devils Canyon and it was a memory I shall never forget. Good friends, excellent climbing, totally wild camping, stars everywhere at night, only the sounds of mother-nature, and not a soul in site…perfect! The only way anyone can camp & climb out there is via the 4 wheel drive road to get there. After I finally got a Jeep and started going out there regularly, I found that just getting there was great fun too. Four wheeling was new to me and I thought that the only people on that road were either going to or from Lower Devils for some great rock climbing. I quickly found out that there were people that knew nothing about the fantastic rock climbing and were there just to do the off-roading and see the beautiful scenery. They too, wanted to see the land that I fell in love with and that’s when it all came together.

I realized that not everyone is just like me. Not everyone is a rock climber. Not everyone has two legs. Not everyone is in great physical shape. Not everyone is young and fit. However, everyone has the right to see, experience, and enjoy the same lands as me.

My career has since then relocated me to the little town of Ridgecrest, CA. There are only 25K people here and the closest “real” shopping and dining is 80 miles south. There is SOOOOOO much to do here that I fell in love with this area very quickly. The Sierra’s are in my backyard giving me and my (rock climbing) wife close access to some of the best climbing in the country and there’s so much open land out here, it’s overwhelming. There are hundreds of miles of open land out here for “everyone” to enjoy. That includes hikers, climbers, and OHV users; and there are literally hundreds of OHV trail out here. This is truly a fantastic place to live if you love the outdoors.

Since I first bought my Jeep for getting to Lower Devil’s Canyon in AZ, I have really gotten into 4 wheeling and exploring places that are only accessed by a 4WD vehicle; so much that I make frequent trips all year round just to go 4 wheeling. Because of 4 wheeling I’ve seen Moab, Tahoe, the Hammers in central CA, and Florence Junction: a place I have never seen before then after living in AZ for several years.

Since I moved to CA I have been visiting my grandmother in Scottsdale by Pinnacle Peek frequently. Every time I go back I see less and less desert up there and it is quickly disappearing. I also see more and more of the Queen Creek area getting shut down, and they haven’t done a climbing competition there in 3 years because of it. Now, I hear that people want to shut down Martinez Cabin also. The more I visit the Phoenix area, the more and more it’s looking like LA. The pollution is crazy, the population growth is amazing, and more and more areas are either being developed or shut down. It’s only a matter of time before all of McDowell mountain is nothing more then a gated community and Queen Creek and Martinez cabin are sites that people “used” to be able to see but are now closed.

Last Christmas I wanted to give the gift of a fun filled day in the beautiful desert near Florence Junction to my family. I have been 4 wheeling in that area for years and love the trails and scenery out there. Last year I did the Martinez Cabin trail and was amazed at the scenery out there. I knew that my family would love to see it. My 75 year old grandmother and out-of-shape mother could only have seen this area via the off-road trail to get there. Because of this trail, they were able to see this magnificent area. As an added bonus I also put them behind the wheel to try driving off road. They said that was just as much fun, if not more, then actually seeing the area. They loved driving and had a great day. I was so happy that they could see this area, and the only way they could have was in an off-road vehicle. That was a day they will never forget.

Being a dog owner, and a major softie (she gets everything she wants and sleeps next to me on the bed), I too appreciate and love animals. My dog even has her own backpack, sleeping bag, sweater and jacket for the great outdoors. Obviously I love the outdoors and wildlife too, as my story should blatantly point out, and these are some of my personal values. I am not alone in these values, in fact pretty much everyone I know has these same values, and probably everyone in your organization has these values as well. I know A LOT of people in the off-road community and they too have pets, love the outdoors and wildlife. I personally know of no one that trail blazes to create new trails, abuses the lands we all use, or doesn’t care about destroying wildlife. I’m sure that there are people out there that do not feel the same way, but I have yet to meet them and if I ever did meet someone like that, I would try my best to change their ways.

My point is that I love the outdoors and several outdoor activities, including 4 wheeling. I appreciate and respect the land that we all use and encourage others to get out there and enjoy it as well. If people close the roads to access some of these magnificent areas, then most people will never see, hike, climb, or camp in these areas due to no access. Then we just have more couch-potatoes in America because all the environmentalists shut everything down. Meanwhile, the same people that are closing these areas to “protect wildlife” are the same ones buying houses in gated communities in McDowell Mountain that are driving all wildlife out of the area and destroying our beautiful desert.

IF YOU LIKE THE GREAT OUTDOORS THEN SUPPORT ACCESS TO IT!!!

EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO ENJOY THESE LANDS! That includes people that can’t physically hike in if necessary. That does not mean that all areas should be grated roads for any vehicle to access or trails be made easier for the weaker to access. It just means that they should not be closed. There’s a big difference between making a trail easy and closing it completely.

How would you feel if one of our soldiers came back from Iraq minus one leg who loved spending time outdoors now being prevented from enjoying these areas because you closed them down? Imagine fighting for your country, risking your life and loosing a limb only to be kicked in the face by someone telling you that you can no longer do what you loved to do: enjoy the great outdoors in this great country of ours. Now that soldier not only lost a limb for fighting for his country, but now he lost some of his freedom too…the very thing people have died to protect.

Maybe you should focus more on preventing development on these lands, then closing trails. Your organization states that you are supporters of preserving and saving the wildlife, yet you are fighting for the rights of hunters. HUGH????? That couldn’t be more contradictory! Yes, I am a meat eater, but I don’t eat duck, quail, elk, or deer. The meat I eat is from a farm, and I AM for preserving the wildlife. That does not mean that I’m going to fight “against” the right of hunters, but I’m certainly not going to fight “for” their rights. Don’t forget there’s a flip side to that hunting coin. You can be hunted as well! Go to an area with bears and just a .45 as see how you do.

In conclusion, I would just like to say that I want to continue to use these lands and allow my family and friends to see the same places I enjoy regardless of their physical abilities. I also want my future children to be able to experience the great landscape this country has to offer. I support the “tread lightly” philosophy and leaving the area as clean as you found it, if not cleaner. I love to go 4 wheeling on designated trails only, but also do my part to cut down on pollution (my other car is Toyota Prius Hybrid with near zero emissions). I hope this letter helps you and others in your organization realize the results of your actions should you continue to support closures of these fun and challenging trails. Please don’t prevent the rest of us from enjoying the great outdoors.


Shawn S. Benson
 

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Just so we are all clear - these meetings are not with the BLM, they are with Sandee to gather information about the trails - meetings with the BLM have not been scheduled.
 

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4xClover said:
Just so we are all clear - these meetings are not with the BLM, they are with Sandee to gather information about the trails - meetings with the BLM have not been scheduled.

I'm clear. Info gathering, to compile data, to present in a plan format to the BLM when the next set of meetings are scheduled. Most of which can be accomplished through emails, but is being done in person with the hopes of more participation. I'll still be at the first meeting.
 
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