[Tacominator]

I found some hydraulic winches and they seem to have a lot of advantages. Any idea why you don't see these very often? They are not more expensive.

Here is some info:

http://www.4x4winches.com/

 

[TRD4WD]

A hydraulic winch is great,but it can not operate unless your engine is running because it runs off of your power steering pump. If your engine will not start for what ever reason,your hydraulic winch will not work,and how much strain would you want to put on your power steering pump? The alternative to this would be running the winch off a remote pump that you could mount in your bed (like a hydraulic pump the lowrider guys use on a hydraulic suspension),the down fall to this is the pump would need a extra battery or batteries to run the pump.

 

[Davidtaco]

A hydraulic winch is great,but it can not operate unless your engine is running because it runs off of your power steering pump. If your engine will not start for what ever reason,your hydraulic winch will not work,and how much strain would you want to put on your power steering pump? The alternative to this would be running the winch off a remote pump that you could mount in your bed (like a hydraulic pump the lowrider guys use on a hydraulic suspension),the down fall to this is the pump would need a extra battery or batteries to run the pump.

If you truck won't start how long can you actaully winch with an eletric under a load....... not very long.

I have Ramsey on the tacoma, and a milemarker hydraulic on my other truck.... I would take the Milemarker over any other winch hands down....

-David

 

[WickedOne]

I';ve been eyeballing the milemarker..... their pricing is very attractive.

 

[Tacominator]

I have always wondered about that ideal, if the thing won't start, why would you be winching it? Wouldn't you get it to start and then winch it? I guess I could see the good in winching a dead truck out of water, but that's what buddies are for... I think I'm defending it because I want one really bad because hydraulics are so cool

 

[Dick Foster]

You may need to either adapt a larger power steering pump or add another hydralic pump to drive a hydralic winch. The stock Tacoma pumps do not have a lot of reserve pumping capacity at pressure. It is just barely adequate to drive a 1.5" steering assist cylinder. The poppet valves are sweged thus preventing much in the way of tweaking it for more juice. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Valkyrie]

The poppet valves are sweged

sweged? I am unfamiliar with this...

Having never taken one apart, I had thought they were vernay rounded valves...

 

[TRD4WD]

If you truck won't start how long can you actaully winch with an eletric under a load....... not very long.

-David

Very good point!

 

[Dick Foster]

The equivelent to this part (Saginaw) cannot be disassembled in order to increase the spring pressure in the Tacoma PS pump. The end cap is not screwed on, it is swedged. The only way to get it apart would be with a drill or end mill. However then the material required for reassembly would be missing. As there are rubber seals and such inside, assembly processes that involve high heat such as welding and brazeing are not options. JB weld is pretty good stuff but it would not work for long within the oil filled, high pressure and high temperatures that are typical inside the pump when it is running.

The orifice can be drilled for more volume but you cannot get the pressure back up at lower rpm to compensate. I know because I've tried it. It made for some very interesting driving too. Slow speed turns as at intersections had to be planned well in advance i.e. depress the clutch, and rev up to get steering because if I let the revs drop to lower RPM or idle I had no steering what so ever as it was locked up. However, when the revs were up at cruise RPM all I had to do was just think about making a lane change. LOL

 

[jwbronco]

So the question is what kind of pump can we use as a replacement that will power up the winch without much problem? I don't really want to have a seperate pump for the winch and steering.

Could you just overdrive the pump by changing the pulley to a smaller one and using the mod listed above?

 

[Valkyrie]

The equivelent to this part (Saginaw) cannot be disassembled in order to increase the spring pressure in the Tacoma PS pump. The end cap is not screwed on, it is swedged. The only way to get it apart would be with a drill or end mill. However then the material required for reassembly would be missing. As there are rubber seals and such inside, assembly processes that involve high heat such as welding and brazeing are not options. JB weld is pretty good stuff but it would not work for long within the oil filled, high pressure and high temperatures that are typical inside the pump when it is running.

The orifice can be drilled for more volume but you cannot get the pressure back up at lower rpm to compensate. I know because I've tried it. It made for some very interesting driving too. Slow speed turns as at intersections had to be planned well in advance i.e. depress the clutch, and rev up to get steering because if I let the revs drop to lower RPM or idle I had no steering what so ever as it was locked up. However, when the revs were up at cruise RPM all I had to do was just think about making a lane change. LOL

Ahhh- kind of like a rivet...

 

[Tacominator]

I think Brian from front range has a Saginaw pump on his truck. I have also heard that certain ZF pumps are pretty mean... Good advice though, thanks agian Dick. BTW, I want cameras on my truck too! I'll be pestering you about that some day.

 

[Dick Foster]

The pulley is not that large now. I think a better plan would be to get a larger pump and adapt it.

 

[Dick Foster]

Yeah, like that but one that is kinda down inside a tube so to speak. The PS pump is easy to disassemble and put back together so take a peek inside of one some day. Maybe you can come up with a fix that didn't occur to me.

 

[Dick Foster]

I'm not in the business so don't bother. I just like to tinker.

 

[Tacominator]

I'm not in the business so don't bother. I just like to tinker.

I know, I don't want you to build me a camera system, I can't afford your services If I have a wiring question and you don't mind, I might ask. If you do mind, there are 2 electrical engineers in the family and we can probably figure it out. If you want to be the only guy with cameras, well that's fine too.

 

[tacd44]

One of the off-road magazines did a comparison of hydro vs. electric several years ago. The hydro was on a 73 Ram and ran off the power steering pump. It fried the PS fluid twice. It was also very slow, so driving while winching was not pratical.

With hydro, yol'll need to upbrade the PS pump. I'm on my third now, without a hydro winch.

With electric, you should upgrade your electrical, but can get away without upgrading.

I have an electric winch and have a 150 amp alternator. My OEM alternator failed, and I have a yellow top. Electrical upgrade wasn't too difficult to upgrade. I did it all myself.

 

[Gargoyle]

I am still on the fence but I am leaning toward the hydraulic with a separate pump. I have found that a Monarch power unit (electric motor w/ hydraulic pump) will produce about 2.0 gpm @ 750 psi (~110 A) and 1.4 gpm @ 1500 psi (~140 A). As far as hydraulics go psi=lbs load, gpm=winch speed. Notice that the 140 amps is about the rating of the upgraded '05 alternator. Therefor, this combination can winch for a long time (100 A = continuous operation, 140 A = 40 min until cool-down)! Also note that the MM is rated (max) of 3.5 gpm @1500 psi. The psi is self-adjusting to the load, ie if you do not have a load over 750 psi (or half the rated winch capacity), that is what will be generated to move the winch.
For the Mile Marker, there are two speeds with the faster speed being notably less pulling power, but still decent. My idea is to go with the combination. I still can not get a price on the power unit but I am working on it. I am also thinking about a valving system that can switch between the PS pump or the power unit. But with the power unit alone, there is no need to upgrade the electrical system and you do not have to tap into the PS system. If you add a hydraulic fluid cooler (transmission cooler works perfectly) then you increase the fluid volume and cool the fluid at the same time.
Once I get a bumper on my new truck, I will be focusing on this system and will be sure to post info on my progress.

 

[platform389]

One of the off-road magazines did a comparison of hydro vs. electric several years ago. The hydro was on a 73 Ram and ran off the power steering pump. It fried the PS fluid twice. It was also very slow, so driving while winching was not pratical.

With hydro, yol'll need to upbrade the PS pump. I'm on my third now, without a hydro winch.

That was 4 Wheel & Off Road that did that article. MileMarker sued them after that came out. They claimed the winch needed to be completely rebuilt after the fluid was cooked and the test was biased as a result! I thought the article was an excellent comparison in a real world application.

Hydro winches do offer significant advantages in certain applications. Warn offers a line of them as well.

http://www.warn.com/industrial/winches/hydraulic_winches_all.shtml

If you can come up with a separate pump for the winch and need the heavy duty continuous service advantages hydro offers, go for it. Otherwise, with all the problems Tacoma PS pumps have as it is, you are just asking for more trouble putting this additional load on it.

 

[Tacominator]

That's good to know that Warn makes some, I would probably prefer theirs. I think if I decide to go with one, I will upgrade to a serious single pump, or add a second. I also want hydro asist so I may upgrade to one good one like Dick suggested. If you put a good cooler on the system, you shouldn't ever cook the fluid, that seems like a pretty silly excuse to not use one.