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Discussion Starter #1
I just bought an 89 with an 83 toy axel, high steer etc.... now i do have steering wobble and I am going through the usual steps to check that out (tighten/replace susp components etc) I am considering installing hydro assist, and since my P/S pump is shot it may be a good time. While the truck is not my DD, it still needs to be streetable. How does hydro assist work on the street? i am guessing it will add a brief lag from when you turn the wheel to when the stuff moves? Is it noticeable? I did try searching, but didnt get anything. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

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It's no problem on the street.

The usual effect of an under sized pump is steering lag i.e. increased effort when the RPMs are low as in a parking lot or something. When you're driving the rpms are off idle so the pump typically has enough capacity to deal with it if your cylinder isn't too large.

I have a 1.5" inch bore cylinder (typical size) and find that the stock Tacoma pump is just adequate. Don't know for sure on the earlier pumps. It could either be better or worse.

I suggest that you get the rebuild kit for the pump and do that before you spend a lot of money for an exchange pump where someone else probably did nothing more than that.
I think that you can tweak the earlier pumps if needed. The later pumps as on the Tacoma have a swedged poppet so you can only do half the mod which is worse than just leaving it alone. On the later ones you can drill for more flow but can't adjust the pressure back up to compensate. I think the earlier pumps use a poppet valve that you can disassemble and tweak the counter spring. You can find that out during the rebuild.
 

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Trail Gear is getting ready to release a high flow/high pressure pump for Hydro Assist set ups.
 

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Like I said, I suggest the he get the seal kit and rebuild what he has and mod if necessary. Then at least he will know what he has. We all know where Trail Gear gets their stuff. It's like the WallMart of offroad.
 

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joeylead said:
I just bought an 89 with an 83 toy axel, high steer etc.... now i do have steering wobble and I am going through the usual steps to check that out (tighten/replace susp components etc) I am considering installing hydro assist, and since my P/S pump is shot it may be a good time. While the truck is not my DD, it still needs to be streetable. How does hydro assist work on the street? i am guessing it will add a brief lag from when you turn the wheel to when the stuff moves? Is it noticeable? I did try searching, but didnt get anything. Any advice would be appreciated.
The PSC pump and 1.75"x6" stroke ram do not lag at all, steering is perfect for a rock crawler/trail rig on the street. Any faster turning.... wouldn't be much helpfull IMO.

Just do it right and run the PSC or Howe pump and a 1.75"x6" stroke ram, if you are running 37's-40's. 35's would work too, but you could use a 1.5"x6" stroke and be fine.

A couple pictures of my setup
I am going to change where my ram is mounted though. I'm going to make a skid/mount almost like people do for full hydro setups so the ram is parallel with the tie rod.

You want a quality ram and pump... if they go out on the trail, you will be hating life! PSC's customer service is top notch, I had my ram start leaking between the alum cap that threads onto the body and they fixed it free of charge in less than one day becasue I needed it back in the mail to make it to me before a run.

When looking at Death Wobble, add this to your check list.

Check your alignment you want it to be 1/8"-1/4" Toe in. Tires out of ballance/round will increase DW. Check your wheel bearings and that you have your knuckle bearings shimmed correctly. Check to see that your TRE's are in good working order also.

Good luck!
 

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To add to what Dick was telling you. with a 1.5" ram, I doubt that you would feel much if any lag in your steering response. On my '97 SAS'd truck the steering was night and day (for the better) once I put the steering ram on.I think I actually feel the positive effects more on the road than I do in the rocks. My steering became a lot smoother (and I thought it was smooth before the ram) and somehow my turning radius improved )still trying to figure out how that happened)

I would definitely recommend a hydro ram over a stabalizer any day. But if you are just trying to "mask" a vibration or shake, I would discourage you from doing that. It is much better to find the cause than to treat the symptom
 

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Curious if the steering wobble feels more like the whole front end vibrating/wobbling and you are feeling it in the wheel, or if it feels more static like wheel feedback. Could help narrow down your search- knuckle up or knuckle out.
Mine feeds back some but I am pretty sure at this point that it is mostly a slightly off panhard, rear wheel out of balance and improperly valved shocks in the front and placement in the rear. My feedback is really just 50-60mph.

Pretty damn good do it yourself hydro assist thread on Marlin's board- something like $100. Just an option.
 

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Wes said:
Pretty damn good do it yourself hydro assist thread on Marlin's board- something like $100. Just an option.
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=4699.0
instructions to tap the box.
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=10579.0

I have this setup above on my 85' Runner. I drive it on the street from time to time without any issues. The steering is a little different but you get used to it. I'd say mine has a little bit of delay in turning. I run an Aussie Locker up front so maybe that has something to do with it.
 

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Hey Kurt! long time no talk hows the weather there?

Oops! didn't mean to get off topic here!

I honestly only feel a lag in mine when I "rush my truck after starting it" After about 45 seconds of the engine running, I don't feel any type of lag. I do have an ARB up front so maybe you are on to something in regards to the type of locker.
 

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good point! excuse me today, I am fighting off strep throat... the brain cells are firing off slower than normal
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wow, thank you all for the responses. I will elaborate a little more about the shimmy. Basically, at about 30 mph, the steering wheel goes side to side a lot. If i have a bent wheel it would make sense. the first thing i am doing is trying out dynabeads. the tires are 37X13.50 r15 Procomp X-terrains. There are wheel weights all over the rims. So I want to start fresh. From that, and better direction on locating the issue would be great. I was going to get a steering damper, but think the ram assist is in order anyway because of the large tires.

With the ram, I actually didnt know that the trailgear stuff wasnt great. I was actually looking at their kit. I know someone who will port the box for me and do the install. (his work is great, he made a toy based tube buggy with a 60 and 14bolt, really nice work) But the benifit of buying a complete kit from them wouild perhaps be that it would all be balanced and minimize any lag?

Oh, and i am also going to be checking all of the axel/steering stuff anyway. The rod ends are all supposed to be new, but I believe I have a an axel seal leak on the pass side so i will be taking everthing apart soon enough. I sort of wanted to ait to do this until i had the money for longs though.

Thanks for the hep and any more is also appreciated. I am off to go to the PSC site and see what all they have.
 

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Fucking XTerrains are pieces of shit so that could be your problem right there. Have they cupped yet?

With that size tire you may be pushing it with a 1.5" bore. It would help but may prove lacking in the rocks. If you go larger on the cylinder then you'd probably want more pump. Take a look at the pump ya got and see if you can take the poppet apart. It you can then you can probably make the stocker work and it will save you some bucks. PSC makes some nice stuff. My guess is the Trail Gear is gonna be a welded cylinder and not rebuildable so if it leaks (and cheap ones tend too) you're SOL. I had to do the cheap cylinder battle and it was a PITA until I just got a better cylinder on there.
If the cylinder is up front and exposed in any way to trail damage I suggest that you think about installing the cylinder with some quick disconnects in the cylinder lines.

Also take a look at my ram clamp writeup on in the FAQ/Tech section about how to make the attachment to the tie rod before you go welding the tabs on to your tie rod. You'll wind up pissed off if you do that when it comes alignment time.
 

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A little shimmy in the wheel ain't nothin. Caster way off up and down or about 2* off side to side will cause that.
So will loose shit- still amazes me what a bolt that backs off a 1/4 turn can translate to at highway speeds.
Eventually I'll swap over to greasable, 1 ton TRE's and get that off my mind...
etc.
 

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a quick question for you in regards to your steering wheel shimmy. does your front end return to center on it's it own? If not, I think I might have a "cause" for you to check out, that is causing the shimmy.

The dyno beads are not going to fix a laterial viberation. I am running them in my current set of tires. On their website for 37x12.5x15 tires they recommend 10 oz. per tire. I found that 14 oz. seem to help better, I still get a slight vibration, but it is manageble. I found out this winter that the Dynobeads can be fun in cold weather. The moisture build up inside the tires freeze which also cause the beads to "clump" it is nothing to really be concerned about but when you first get in the truck and drive, it can be alarming, at least until the tires warm up and thaw the moisture.

I agree about PSC stuff being good, but my steering ram is the trail gear set up. I have to double check to make sure or not if it is the welded end type as Dick referenced, I can't remember at the present. But I have had it on approx. since September or October without any issues. I had to build a custom mount for mine since I installed it on a Dana 44 opposed to what it was designed for (pre taco toy axle) So I suspect you would be able to bolt it straight up to your application and as you said, it should be balanced to your axle.
 

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Wes said:
still amazes me what a bolt that backs off a 1/4 turn can translate to at highway speeds.
x2..........I had my steering box bolts back off a little and I had really bad case of deathwobble...........CHECK ALL YOUR BOLTS! :D
 

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I have been lucky in regards to my steering box bolts, but I have had the ubolts loosen up on me.

I am hoping the weather is decent enough this weekend that I can get out and do a quick once over on everything this weekend, but I probably won't be able to! It is suppose to rain again!

If the camber is off/ too much negative then the tires will shake or feel as they are. when in reality the tires are fitting themselves going from side to side. I had that situation with my truck. We added some camber and it began turning better (returned to center by itself) and the shake went away!

Or was it caster? I always get those terms screwed up! I am talking about the plain the ball joints line up on from top to bottom! ( now, do I feel like the perfect internet tweeb!)
 

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Bear,

You are running the Trail Gear ram? 1.5"x6" stroke? If you are,.... I suspect you are loosing a good amount of turning ability. Dana Axles generally use a 8" stroke ram.
 

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Yea! running the 1.5x6". It was the one I won from Davez! I figured I would loose exactly as you are thinking. But some how I gained!

Before the ram, no rubbing on the frame. now with the ram, I rub on the frame if I am not paying attention. I can't explain it. I did not move the axle in either direction, didn't change anything when I installed the ram. yet I now can turn in a better radius.

I know it is a fluke, but I am not complaining. But it does make me wonder if I got an 8" ram what my turning would be like. But since I rub the frame now, I don't think I could improve much more if any.

The ram is centered on the tie rod. I measured the throw 5 times before welding the mounts on. I have exactly 3" exposed and it compresses exactly 3".

Like I said it is a fluke! The only thing I can think of is my steering arms are not set up as most are. I have 4" blocks under the arms which also tilt the arms inward. But not by 1". Maybe 1/4" to 1/2" at most.

I know the blocks are not the best set up, but for my clearence issues I was having, they are the best solution. and it just makes me a better driver…knowing I have a weak link on my steering. I tend not to stick my wheels into carvises others would. That is the only draw back I have found so far.
 

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Yup your truck is really bazar... time to tear it down and redo all of it. :)

Sounds like it works fine for you, nothing to change... aside from the tie rod mount..

I'm not sure how you can get more steering... but un... maybe you are out steering your box... or TRE's.. um :confused:... I got it... You are just special, we'll leave it at that.

Welding tabs to the tierod... cheap ass! :pJust get or make a clap. You will have fun setting toe otherwise! Dick is going to love you for that also!
 
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