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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone, I am looking to get more travel out of the front of my taco. The rear is linked with 24" of travel and the front only has 15 and modified factory spindles (ESB kit). My question is, should I go with the Burg full race kit (claims 18-20 inches) or should I go with a giant equal length beam set up? Pros a nd cons of each?

Thanks in advance
 

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I'd keep it a-arms

From the pic you posted in the esb question thread, If it was my truck, i'd add a bypass shock, get some fabricated lift spindles, take out some preload on the coilovers or lighten up your main spring to set it up for more droop from ride height and call it a day. That ESB kit looks good, 15" sounds like plenty of travel.

Are you're worried about the wheel bearings, i don't have any experience with 1st gen 6 lugs, are they really weak?

Camburg kit would be rad though, i'm just too cheap to go spend 5g's on an a-arm/spindle kit.

Maybe some guys that are racing or building big travel 1st gen 6-lugs can give you better advice.
 

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Personally I'd do as Fabien said. Get a lift spindle built, with upgraded hubs if you want, dial your shocks and go race it.... Look at Bonzen now, he has the upgraded version of your kit(claims it only pulls about 15) and he hangs with most of the high end 1400 trucks. He admits that if they both have a perfect day he will lose. There is also Dan Vance whom I believe I remember saying his front end is only about 15"s and its hard to argue with his record. I think that 15"s up front is solid and would work for a while. Once you can truly out drive that then maybe think about upgrading to beams, or center mount that SOB... Not to mention you'd save a good amount of time and money now.

...As far as the actual question I'd most likely just center mount the truck if you're worried about 15"s not being enough(i dislike beams, especially beamed Toyotas).... The right kits are lighter than a frame railed truck, pull more travel, have "proper" geometry, and make girls wet just thinking about it. To me if you are thinking beams, then the extra work for a center mount "kit" is worth it....but im just an internet fabricator so take my advice at the value you paid for it
 

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beams vs a-arms

I personally love beams! But like whats been said in the above comments.. Bonzen and Vance have around the 15" mark and they both jam!.

You get your shocks dialed in and get a good working kit with 15" of usable travel and you will be surprised how fast you would be able to hit the big, rough stuff..

dialing in your shocks is key, valving and spring rate will make all the difference in the world.
 

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And for the record, I can think of two fabbers off the top of my head who make full kill kits that are arguably every bit as good as the 'Burg kit for less than $5k.

I don't have anything against beams, I just don't get the idea of putting parts on a truck it doesn't belong on. Putting beams on a Yota to me is like putting boobs on a dude and pretending its somehow become a lady. Just my personal opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys! I would deff like to keep the kit I have, I just figured it would end up costing me alot to get a good spindle made and go to some good hubs/brakes. Thought it may be worth it to get rid of what I have and then just buy a new burg kit that has all of it already.

What would be some good, economically priced companies to inquire about getting a spindle built? I am new to the toyotas, I previously had a full size chevy.

Also, who builds the other kits that are similar to camburgs?

Does anyone know what is different on the esb "race" kit from mine? Can I convert mine? Also, would it be worth it to convert my upper arm to heimed and get rid of the bottom arm "cam style" alignment method?

I like the idea of only having to modify my kit alot! haha
 

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Okay, looking at that... There's NOTHING wrong with the hubs your running! They're proven and very strong! Just make sure the wheel bearings are fresh and serviced and you should have no issues with it. Also, it looks like you've still got the stock calipers on there. Nothing wrong with those either. They're already a quality 4 piston style caliper. If you just want to change for cool factor by all means go for it but really, your stock calipers should work fine. If you want more braking power consider going to a larger rotor and custom make new caliper mounting tabs on the new spindles.

As far as spindles go, possibly hit up bonzen, last I heard he had the fixtures for the esb spindles and I believe he's knocked out a set or two.

If your upper uniball was vertical I'd know someone that probably had one ready to go for you for probably a decent price.
 

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bwhahaha boobs on a dude!

And for the record, I can think of two fabbers off the top of my head who make full kill kits that are arguably every bit as good as the 'Burg kit for less than $5k.

I don't have anything against beams, I just don't get the idea of putting parts on a truck it doesn't belong on. Putting beams on a Yota to me is like putting boobs on a dude and pretending its somehow become a lady. Just my personal opinion.
i agree! boobs on a dude is gross.. haha

if you really want a completely different kit, check out Evan over at NO.7 suspension.. dude builds quality parts.

http://www.number7suspension.com/fabrication/products/toyota-tacoma/race-kit.html

his numbers on this page say 18" metal to metal.. i got this picture off his facebook link on his site.

you should throw a bypass in the mix.. it'll make a world of difference.
 

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Having JUST gone thru this with our build, I'm a bit curious as to how he's getting the bump travel that you'd want without a bend in that lower arm? We found out first hand why virtually ever other kit out there has that bend in it including the ESB kit if you look at the picture above. It's further out on the end then ours and is more drastic visual wise cause of that but it achieves the same thing. I don't see how No7 is getting the bump travel you'd want from a reasonable ride height without it... Typically I'd agree though, everything I've seen from No7 has been very nice but I do question that one.

Example.... Here's version 1... Notice the lower arm is straight with just a minor kick up at the end.



It worked but it didn't stuff the wheel up in there nearly as much as it should've. The droop travel was absolutely insane though!!! LOL Like completely over kill!

This is the final arms we ended up with. You can see the bend more towards the center on the lower and much more drastic.



And before anyone questions us as to if we are shooting for too much bump travel and possibly letting the frame hit the ground... Here it is at full metal to metal, you can see the ground clearance we have. With the straight arm our bump was about 3-4" before where we're at now. I'm actually going to get even more bump travel out of it when all said and done then what's shown here just cause I feel that I've got a little room left still to squeeze out of it.

 

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no.7 questions

i would hit up Evan? guy is super smart and i am sure wouldn't mind rapping with you about the geometry of his kit vs others..

your kit came out looking good! have you had a chance to use it?
 

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Nope, other then rolling around in the front yard and then into the garage all on the bumpstops that's all we've gotten to so far. I do notice Evan's isn't setup to work in the stock upper location which I do actually like a bit better then ours but MCM who built ours wanted to market it as a true bolt in kit into the stock upper location. That still shouldn't affect the lower arm issue I'm talking about though. MCM's first attempt was pretty much exactly what the No7 was and we just didn't like what it produced so we scrapped and improved. BTW, I'm not even remotely trying to talk shit or anything at all... Just curious more then anything only cause we ran into that issue just recently with our development. We're shooting for it being in the dirt around oct. I'm actually hoping to have the entire front frame and kit stuff buttoned up mid next week so I can get going on the cage work next.
 

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bump tavel

no! i don't take it that way at all..

i am wondering if the upright being more vertical then the one you have plus the upper arm length being different has something to do with it?

do you have shocks and bumps already?
 

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yes, 2.5" coilovers, 3" bypass, and 2.5" bumps up front. 3" bypass rear, 2" bumps rear.














azjake, sorry for hijacking your thread a bit.

I still personally think you should look into have a good set of spindles built and use them with the esb stuff. Toss another shock in there if you need to. You might even be able to use a solo motorsports lift spindle with just a little bit of modifications. You'd want to call them and maybe show them some pictures of what you're working with though.

http://solomotorsports.com/index.php/prod/prodtoy/24-tacoma-and-tundra-lift-spindle
 

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The one thing I do notice on the No7 kit though is the hub setup in relation to the upper and lower uniballs are similar to us. You'll want a really high backspaced wheel for it to really work well. We found one with like a 5.25" backspacing that should work great!

What we found that limited the bump travel involved solely the lower arm, the spindle and upper worked fine, it just went metal to metal too soon at bump without the bend in the lower. Who knows... I'm sure all the kits out there are pretty kickass and will put a smile on your face in the dirt which is what matters the most!
 

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They should do quite nice for the abuse the truck will most likely see! Hopefully the rest of my fab holds up! HAHA
HAHA looks like it should hold up.... at least until it doesn't haha

get that thing done so you can see how it works!
 

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Discussion Starter #19



Okay, looking at that... There's NOTHING wrong with the hubs your running! They're proven and very strong! Just make sure the wheel bearings are fresh and serviced and you should have no issues with it. Also, it looks like you've still got the stock calipers on there. Nothing wrong with those either. They're already a quality 4 piston style caliper. If you just want to change for cool factor by all means go for it but really, your stock calipers should work fine. If you want more braking power consider going to a larger rotor and custom make new caliper mounting tabs on the new spindles.

As far as spindles go, possibly hit up bonzen, last I heard he had the fixtures for the esb spindles and I believe he's knocked out a set or two.

If your upper uniball was vertical I'd know someone that probably had one ready to go for you for probably a decent price.
I actually hit up esb mike and he said that he couldnt build the spindles. He also said that the fab'd spindles were made for the "race kit" that I dont have. So that all sounded good but it looks like i would have to get some made haha. As far as brakes and what not, like I said earlier I am just getting into the toyotas and I didnt realize these spindles were sufficient, but thank you!

Is bonzen ESB mike? Or are they different? lol
 

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Discussion Starter #20
i agree! boobs on a dude is gross.. haha

if you really want a completely different kit, check out Evan over at NO.7 suspension.. dude builds quality parts.

http://www.number7suspension.com/fabrication/products/toyota-tacoma/race-kit.html

his numbers on this page say 18" metal to metal.. i got this picture off his facebook link on his site.

you should throw a bypass in the mix.. it'll make a world of difference.

When I talked to ESB mike he didnt seem like it would be very easy to put a bypass on my kit. he said "anything is possible with alot of work lol". Haha which makes me wonder, because the lower arm is not that wide and i dont think i could fit a bypass on it and behind the upper without it being at a huge angle.

As far as #7 goes, I will talk to him. Any idea on the cost of his kit?
 
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