[SteveO]

Just another reason to run synthetic. http://www.winchtest.com/1.html

 

[SteveO]

Interesting quote from page 12.

"The design of the Warn XD9000i winch is defective and unreasonably dangerous. The design of the winch should be altered to eliminate the defects and protect the users and bystanders from the hazards presented by sudden failure of the winch’s wire rope. "

 

[Gargoyle]

That report has been out for a while. If you get Mile Marker's video (I just got mine last week) it has some interesting demonstrations of the 5/16 cable breaking many times at less than the 9000 lbs. Since it is usually sold as standard equipment with 9000 lb winches, it make you wonder what the makers of such equipment are thinking.

 

[SteveO]

That report has been out for a while. If you get Mile Marker's video (I just got mine last week) it has some interesting demonstrations of the 5/16 cable breaking many times at less than the 9000 lbs. Since it is usually sold as standard equipment with 9000 lb winches, it make you wonder what the makers of such equipment are thinking.

I'd like to see the Milemarker put up against a Warn and see how it compares. It's interesting that Milemarker provided their competitions winch but not one of their own.

 

[Gargoyle]

Here are a couple interesting links regarding hydraulic winches:
http://www.4x4winches.com/winchmile.html
http://www.landyonline.co.za/techtalk/Winches.htm
http://www.peak-recovery.fsnet.co.uk/WinchSafety.htm
I am personally looking hard at a Mile Marker 10500 with a custom drive system rather than the standard "tap into the PS pump" style the MM is known for. I have almost settled on a hydraulic power unit that will provide a good bit of the needed hydraulic power with only 220A or less of power draw from the electrical system. I have contacted Dave at Winches Plus (http://www.winchesplus.com/) and he is suppling Plasma synth cables. He will sell the winch with a small discount (to keep the cable and fairlead) and is selling a 3/8" x 100' Plasma for $189, plus the winch (75-50050C) with the kit (35-5020-41) for $727 (or $737 if you want the remote valve). Not a bad deal for a synth cable, the hook, the winch, and the hydraulic system for $916!

 

[platform389]

That report has been out for a while. If you get Mile Marker's video (I just got mine last week) it has some interesting demonstrations of the 5/16 cable breaking many times at less than the 9000 lbs. Since it is usually sold as standard equipment with 9000 lb winches, it make you wonder what the makers of such equipment are thinking.

I have that tape too. Remember the big stink when MileMarker sued 4 Wheel & Off Road Magazine? They took a Warn and a MileMarker out for tests pulling out stuck trucks (..instead of a test stand like the video had). The MileMarker stalled and burned the power steering fluid. The magazine changed the power steering fluid and pump and tried again. MM claimed the winch needed to returned for overhaul also and the test was biased. Looked pretty real world to me. The Warn recovered the truck each time with no difficulty.

With all the problems we have with power steering on these trucks, it would not be a good idea to add even more load with one of these winches.

From one of the links above:

History
The Mile Marker Story
The power steering powered hydraulic winches came onto the market with a big bang with high performance and equally high expectations.
Sadly for the man in the street, the release of these winches onto the South African market was badly researched.

The problems started when the winches where not able to perform as specified - this quickly spread and gave the winches a bad name.

The problem is that the winches where designed for the American market, no different to our local market except for the vehicles. The American vehicles had very large heavy duty power steering pumps which produced double the oil flow and a higher pressure than the pumps used on locally available vehicles.
As a result, the winches where not receiving their full design pressure and could therefore not perform to specification.

The way to fix the problem is to fit a heavy duty high volume power steering pump to the vehicle.

Hydro winches do work great, and Warn makes their own line of them.But they require their own separate pump to work properly.

http://www.warn.com/industrial/winches/hydraulic_winches_all.shtml

As for the cable breaking, I have owned three different Warn and Ramsey winches on six trucks. Have done many recoveries of myself and others, and have never broken a cable like that. Anyone knows you have to be mindful of what is happening and stop when approaching stall conditions. Either a snatch block or shovel work may be required. Worst recovery I ever did was a Chevy K2500 that was in a pond with a Ramsey REP6000. Used a snatch block and anchored the Mitsubishi Montero to a tree. Melted the insulation off of the cables from the amp draw, but it came out!

This MM report/video has been out for a while and Warn hasn't changed to a larger sized cable, so the "problem" may not be as bad as MM would have you believe.

 

[WallyP226]

Pulling a cable to failure and it breaks before it supposed to, that is a quality problem not a safety issue. Warn ought to be checking this out not MileMarker, since the liability is going to start with Warn.

I have worked around cable for 15 years working part time on radio and tv towers and I can't say I have seen a catastrophic failure from the use of cable. We pick multi ton loads and drag them up the sides of towers, they sway in the wind, rub against the tower at times and still no catastrophic failures even when the wind is picking up the back of a two ton truck! Been 4 wheeling since I was a kid, my dad took me four wheeling with with him the earliest I can remember is 1973, I can't think of a single time a cable ever failed, we winched people out, we winched our selves out, we recovered mining equipment from silver mines that weighed several tons, etc etc etc etc. I have spent years hanging from the end of one, working with it with several tons ie 10+ton of pull on them and all I can say is from my personal experience I just don't see disasters everybody woos about. Not saying a failure can't happen, nor am I saying somebody can't get hurt if a catastrophic failure occurs, but IMO cable failures are over rated and very very very very rare, period

Part of safety is keeping people out of the way, putting a rug or car mats over your wire rope, getting out of your vehicle with a remote and paying attention to the dynamic environment.

Some prefer poly for a reduction in weight, ease in handling from certain stand points and these are valid reasons for using it, but it also has down sides. It can go bad in the sun, it can go bad just sitting around, its more expensive, it has poor durability when compared to wire rope. All in all its higher maintenence and more expensive.

I see it as an excuse to spend more money, but hey to each his own and if you like poly better and eat up the safety as a rationale for spending the extra cash, go for it.

 

[hytenor]

Just another reason to run synthetic. http://www.winchtest.com/1.html

interesting.

what got me was the amp draw, geeze! I think I'll replace my negative battery cable now

 

[bluetaco]

Just another reason to run synthetic. http://www.winchtest.com/1.html

http://parts.grade.de/bergen/milemarker/weston.htm

here is another test for you to ponder!

 

[BlingTaco]

I bought my warn winch for the winch, not the cable. I think it's safe to say warn is the last winch to stall....I'd rather my winch out work the cable instead of vice versa..... :welder: But I do agree synthetic rope is safer....

 

[dragr1]

So an 8000 pound winch may be the highest load for the steel cable?

 

[Pinion]

I have a MM hydro on my TJ and it will go onto my Taco when it shows up in a few weeks. You dont necessarily need a high perf pump. I havent looked at a Taco PS pump, but if it is similar in design to the saginaw style in my TJ it is easy to modify to increase pressure and flow. I had a problem with stalling the winch due to a small reservoir and the fluid overheating. To fix, I use a large tranny cooler in front of the grille which obviously cools the ps fluid, but also increases the amount of fluid in the system. After these two additions, I havent had a single problem with my mm hydro. The only thing is I wish I had picked up the 10.5 instead of the 9K.
If my cable ever breaks, I will probably go with another wire rope.
I tell you that winches are the best all around thing you will ever buy for your rig. Not only will it get you out of trouble, it is great for doing all kinds of things around the yard. I have moved cars with pulled motors, pulled my 2F out of my basement while still on the engine stand, moved my rolling 40 frame around the yard..all kinds of stuff. Great for just about everything.

 

[Pinion]

Another point is that wire rope needs to be taken care of. Be sure it is kept free of kinks and rust and it will last a long time. I unspool my line at least once a year for preventative maintenance. By that, I mean I drag the whole thing out, inspect it, and when I spool it back in under light load I keep control when spooling in with a heavily soaked oil rag. Three heavily salted new england winters and I dont have a single speck of rust on my cable. The oil also serves as an indicator for the cable if it is placed under too much load as it will "bleed out" from compression.

 

[zszac111]

I have a MM hydro on my TJ and it will go onto my Taco when it shows up in a few weeks. You dont necessarily need a high perf pump. I havent looked at a Taco PS pump, but if it is similar in design to the saginaw style in my TJ it is easy to modify to increase pressure and flow. .

the tacoma pump is horrible, they have problems just acting normal without something else pulling off of it. you can put a chevy pump on there with a small bit of fab work.