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Well after reading all the reports about deckplate mods, elbow removals & such, I decided to do some experiments with my truck. I have a K& N FIPK installed with a throttle body spacer & have been pretty happy with the performance.....I was really looking for better fuel mpg not really concerned with h.p.. This past week I removed the FIPK, which while installed I have been averaging aprox 19 to 20 mpg in all around driving. I re-installed the stock airbox whick is drilled out....similar to the deckplate mod, & has a K& N drop in filter. Now I do admit there is not really a noticable increase in h.p. with the K&N FIPK....maybe in the upper rpms if any, but there is definately a difference in mpg. In my average-all around driving with the stock-drilled out air box I was getting aprox 14-15 mpg. With the K&N FIPK I was getting 19-20 mpg. To me that is quite a difference. My biggest complaint about the FIPK is the additional noise it creates...but the increase in fuel economy out-weighs the annoying sound. I hope this helps anyone who is looking to get the most mpg out of their rig.
 

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It's because the FIPK leans out the A/F ratio.

Uneasy Rider said:
Well after reading all the reports about deckplate mods, elbow removals & such, I decided to do some experiments with my truck. I have a K& N FIPK installed with a throttle body spacer & have been pretty happy with the performance.....I was really looking for better fuel mpg not really concerned with h.p.. This past week I removed the FIPK, which while installed I have been averaging aprox 19 to 20 mpg in all around driving. I re-installed the stock airbox whick is drilled out....similar to the deckplate mod, & has a K& N drop in filter. Now I do admit there is not really a noticable increase in h.p. with the K&N FIPK....maybe in the upper rpms if any, but there is definately a difference in mpg. In my average-all around driving with the stock-drilled out air box I was getting aprox 14-15 mpg. With the K&N FIPK I was getting 19-20 mpg. To me that is quite a difference. My biggest complaint about the FIPK is the additional noise it creates...but the increase in fuel economy out-weighs the annoying sound. I hope this helps anyone who is looking to get the most mpg out of their rig.
 

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How does it lean it out? I thought the stock ecm could adjust for at least a 20% difference in air/fuel fluctuations? plus if the oxygen sensors read its leaning it will adjust the mix. But Damn going from 15 to 19 mpg is impressive! has anyone acheived that with the deck plate? I am leary of doing either but only because I am sticking with stock air filters. I plan on keeping this truck for as long as possible so the paper filters work the best at keeping crap out.
 

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TuRD03 said:
How does it lean it out? I thought the stock ecm could adjust for at least a 20% difference in air/fuel fluctuations? plus if the oxygen sensors read its leaning it will adjust the mix. But Damn going from 15 to 19 mpg is impressive! has anyone acheived that with the deck plate? I am leary of doing either but only because I am sticking with stock air filters. I plan on keeping this truck for as long as possible so the paper filters work the best at keeping crap out.
I'm not going to get into the technical aspects right now but take a look at this dyno of a V6. The blue line is a stock intake, (might be a deckplate) and the red line is with the K&N FIPK.

People like to show deckplates out performing intake kits on the dyno but what most fail to realize or intentionally don't point out is what happens to the A/F ratio. Look how lean the K&N causes the engine to run @ WOT. If you correct this condition, the power gains are nice.

This dyno shows a 6 hp loss and a 25 lb. ft. loss in the torque using the FIPK. Look at the A/F ratio though. The A/F ratio is nearly 16:1 in some cases with the K&N. At WOT on a NA engine somewhere around 13.2:1 to 13.8:1 is where you want to be. In some cases a little leaner or richer works better.

I'll have some dyno's and all we've found in the next few weeks but I'll say this; The FIPK and the Injen intakes outflow the deckplate with a drop in amsoil or K&N by a huge amount. It's not even close. When you add better flowing exhaust and the ability to dial in the A/F ratio you come up with some nice gains.

We're going to the dyno either the end of this week or next week sometime to make some final adjustments. The power gains so far have been nice but there is more.

 

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akshunj said:
I'm not going to get into the technical aspects right now but take a look at this dyno of a V6. The blue line is a stock intake, (might be a deckplate) and the red line is with the K&N FIPK.

People like to show deckplates out performing intake kits on the dyno but what most fail to realize or intentionally don't point out is what happens to the A/F ratio. Look how lean the K&N causes the engine to run @ WOT. If you correct this condition, the power gains are nice.

We've been playing with an intake, exhaust, and dialing it all in with a piggyback computer on my truck.

I'll have some dyno's and all we've found in the next few weeks but I'll say this; The FIPK and the Injen intakes outflow the deckplate with a drop in amsoil or K&N by a huge amount. It's not even close.



How do you correct the A/F ratio? Also how much HP is gained over the stock air box w/deck plate mod?
 

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Do you have the colors mixed up, or is this because you haven't yet corrected the air/fuel mix?? The blue-stock line has the red-K&N line beat hands down. I am curious, and I like the chart to support the theory. Thanks for the info, and please keep us updated when you can.
 

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Lucky13TRD said:
How do you correct the A/F ratio? Also how much HP is gained over the stock air box w/deck plate mod?
You can tweak the A/F ratio with a piggyback computer. There's a few out there that will do the trick.

Most people claim anywhere from 6 to 10hp with the deckplate. I didn't see that much of a gain.
 

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rojodiablo said:
Do you have the colors mixed up, or is this because you haven't yet corrected the air/fuel mix?? The blue-stock line has the red-K&N line beat hands down. I am curious, and I like the chart to support the theory. Thanks for the info, and please keep us updated when you can.
That's not my truck that the dyno came from. No the colors are not mixed up. The FIPK leaned it out that much and look how much power was lost, especially in the torque dept.
 

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akshunj said:
You can tweak the A/F ratio with a piggyback computer. There's a few out there that will do the trick.

Most people claim anywhere from 6 to 10hp with the deckplate. I didn't see that much of a gain.
Link? :confused:
 

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akshunj said:
People like to show deckplates out performing intake kits on the dyno but what most fail to realize or intentionally don't point out is what happens to the A/F ratio. Look how lean the K&N causes the engine to run @ WOT. If you correct this condition, the power gains are nice.

This dyno shows a 6 hp loss and a 25 lb. ft. loss in the torque using the FIPK. Look at the A/F ratio though. The A/F ratio is nearly 16:1 in some cases with the K&N. At WOT on a NA engine somewhere around 13.2:1 to 13.8:1 is where you want to be. In some cases a little leaner or richer works better.

I'll have some dyno's and all we've found in the next few weeks but I'll say this; The FIPK and the Injen intakes outflow the deckplate with a drop in amsoil or K&N by a huge amount. It's not even close. When you add better flowing exhaust and the ability to dial in the A/F ratio you come up with some nice gains.

We're going to the dyno either the end of this week or next week sometime to make some final adjustments. The power gains so far have been nice but there is more.
QUOTE]

OK, got me interested...what is the procedure for adjusting the A/F ratio? could this be 'dialed' from the cab in some way so you could have the extra power when needed but lean it back out for gas mileage?
 

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I see it stated all over the place that the K&N FIPK out flows the stock box, or modified stock box by a HUGE amount.

How you do all know this? Have you flow tested both configurations on the flow bench? How do you know how much either one flows?

I think I know what you are going to say, but lets hear it.
 

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Gadget said:
I see it stated all over the place that the K&N FIPK out flows the stock box, or modified stock box by a HUGE amount.

How you do all know this? Have you flow tested both configurations on the flow bench? How do you know how much either one flows?

I think I know what you are going to say, but lets hear it.
Weee! its popcorn time! :popcorn2: :D

I wondered how long it would take you to get in on this one, hee, hee.
 

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Gadget said:
I see it stated all over the place that the K&N FIPK out flows the stock box, or modified stock box by a HUGE amount.

How you do all know this? Have you flow tested both configurations on the flow bench? How do you know how much either one flows?

I think I know what you are going to say, but lets hear it.
With a flow bench. A friend of mine in the Air National Guard works guidance and control systems in avionics with me. He is pretty good with pitot static systems on the aircraft. He actually has his own flowbench he made.
 

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OK, got me interested...what is the procedure for adjusting the A/F ratio? could this be 'dialed' from the cab in some way so you could have the extra power when needed but lean it back out for gas mileage?
Use the search n00b. :D Just use a piggyback computer. I bought the cheapest used one I could get my hands on off ebay. Gadget must have a million posts about how to do this. Plus hit up google and there are lot's of people using SAFC's, FTC's, and SMT's to do this and not just for Tacoma's either.

At first I thought, "waste of time" tuning a N/A motor and that's what most people told me too.

I dyno'd my truck as a baseline for when I finish the turbo on my truck (on hold now). Look at my dyno and the A/F ratio with the deckplate open. the guy at the dyno told me I'd get a good increase in power if I could tweak the A/F ratio.

The A/F ratio is the bottom line, the scale for it is to the right. Now the 2.7L is the opposite of the V6. It's running pig rich and killing the power. When you open up your truck (2.7L, right?) and it feels like it has no pickup after 3750 rpm's it's because it doesn't. It's running so rich the power just flattens right out once you reach about 4k rpms.

Fix the A/F ratio and that changes. Increase intake flow, exhaust flow, and dial in the A/F ratio and it gets even better.

This is the same thing Gadget has been telling S/C guys for years and works the same. The power gains are not as dramatic as what the SC does since you're not pressuring the engine with boost.

This is for the 2.7L. We haven't done shite to a V6. We'll be at the dyno this week working on the Jetta (2.0L turbo) so my truck is on hold until next week. Oh yeah, 290 to the wheels, not bad for an 8 valve Mach 3 Jetta.





 

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I am a tad familure with pitot static systems being a pilot my self. I would be greatly suprised that a flow bench used for a pitot static system would be of any use to flow test an induction system that would need to flow at least 300 HP of air. Pitot static systems are mostly based on differential pressure more then flow. Very little air moves if at all through pitot static system, but pressure does change.

Even few high end machine shops have flow benchs capable of flowing that much air. They usually just flow test one cylinder port at a time.

If you friend really has a flow bench capable for camparing two different induction systems all the way out to the full flow capability then you need to get those charts are publish them for everyones benifit. It would be good to know at what flow volume the stock box or modified stock box starts becoming restrictive. This will equate to a HP rating and then people will know how much the stock system can handle before a power robbing restriction occurs.

If you can get the flow charts for the flow tests your friend did please post them up.
 

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akshunj said:
Use the search n00b. :D Just use a piggyback computer. I bought the cheapest used one I could get my hands on off ebay. Gadget must have a million posts about how to do this. Plus hit up google and there are lot's of people using SAFC's, FTC's, and SMT's to do this and not just for Tacoma's either.

At first I thought, "waste of time" tuning a N/A motor and that's what most people told me too.

I dyno'd my truck as a baseline for when I finish the turbo on my truck (on hold now). Look at my dyno and the A/F ratio with the deckplate open. the guy at the dyno told me I'd get a good increase in power if I could tweak the A/F ratio.

The A/F ratio is the bottom line, the scale for it is to the right. Now the 2.7L is the opposite of the V6. It's running pig rich and killing the power. When you open up your truck (2.7L, right?) and it feels like it has no pickup after 3750 rpm's it's because it doesn't. It's running so rich the power just flattens right out once you reach about 4k rpms.

Fix the A/F ratio and that changes. Increase intake flow, exhaust flow, and dial in the A/F ratio and it gets even better.

This is the same thing Gadget has been telling S/C guys for years and works the same. The power gains are not as dramatic as what the SC does since you're not pressuring the engine with boost.

This is for the 2.7L. We haven't done shite to a V6. We'll be at the dyno this week working on the Jetta (2.0L turbo) so my truck is on hold until next week. Oh yeah, 290 to the wheels, not bad for an 8 valve Mach 3 Jetta.
dang, I'd say at least 60% of that was greek to me, LOL; the part about being rich off the line and dropping power at higher rpms made sense, though ;)
 

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akshunj said:
Use the search n00b. :D Just use a piggyback computer. I bought the cheapest used one I could get my hands on off ebay. Gadget must have a million posts about how to do this. Plus hit up google and there are lot's of people using SAFC's, FTC's, and SMT's to do this and not just for Tacoma's either.

At first I thought, "waste of time" tuning a N/A motor and that's what most people told me too.

I dyno'd my truck as a baseline for when I finish the turbo on my truck (on hold now). Look at my dyno and the A/F ratio with the deckplate open. the guy at the dyno told me I'd get a good increase in power if I could tweak the A/F ratio.

The A/F ratio is the bottom line, the scale for it is to the right. Now the 2.7L is the opposite of the V6. It's running pig rich and killing the power. When you open up your truck (2.7L, right?) and it feels like it has no pickup after 3750 rpm's it's because it doesn't. It's running so rich the power just flattens right out once you reach about 4k rpms.

Fix the A/F ratio and that changes. Increase intake flow, exhaust flow, and dial in the A/F ratio and it gets even better.

This is the same thing Gadget has been telling S/C guys for years and works the same. The power gains are not as dramatic as what the SC does since you're not pressuring the engine with boost.

This is for the 2.7L. We haven't done shite to a V6. We'll be at the dyno this week working on the Jetta (2.0L turbo) so my truck is on hold until next week. Oh yeah, 290 to the wheels, not bad for an 8 valve Mach 3 Jetta.
So for the 2.7l the FIPK is actually a good thing?
 

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I'll see him this week and ask him for the numbers he came up with. I'll get some pictures too if I can. We gave him a K&N FIPK + stock intake for a VW Jetta and then the Injen intake and stock intake off my truck. He also has my extra 2.7L cylinder head he's going to flow test.

This might be an example of how his flow bench works. I know it has to do with a pitot static system. I'm not a guidance and control tech so I am not too swift with the tech, I work comm/nav systems.

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/bench.htmhttp://knfilters.com/testmethod.htm

If a flow bench is as rare as you say, I might just try to build my own. :)

As for the stock box becoming a restriction, I doubt anyone will see power levels like that. I know I won't with what I'm doing now and when the turbo goes on I certainly won't be using the stock system.

Speaking of turbo, does URD have plans for a 2.7L turbo manifold? If so, a cast iron one? All the mild steel ones I have seen are junk.





Gadget said:
I am a tad familure with pitot static systems being a pilot my self. I would be greatly suprised that a flow bench used for a pitot static system would be of any use to flow test an induction system that would need to flow at least 300 HP of air. Pitot static systems are mostly based on differential pressure more then flow. Very little air moves if at all through pitot static system, but pressure does change.

Even few high end machine shops have flow benchs capable of flowing that much air. They usually just flow test one cylinder port at a time.

If you friend really has a flow bench capable for camparing two different induction systems all the way out to the full flow capability then you need to get those charts are publish them for everyones benifit. It would be good to know at what flow volume the stock box or modified stock box starts becoming restrictive. This will equate to a HP rating and then people will know how much the stock system can handle before a power robbing restriction occurs.

If you can get the flow charts for the flow tests your friend did please post them up.
 
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