TTORA Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
618 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Months ago, I bought a 22RTE motor from Russell and paid him for the installation, as well. I trailered my truck up to his house and the swap was done in his garage. He was fast, gave me detailed updates over the phone and I was impressed with the work he did.

I came back a couple days later to pick my truck up and the cooling wasn't hooked up because my motor mounts were in the way and the intercooler piping wasn't hooked up because it wouldn't fit my truggy.

Before leaving his house, we made plans for him to come down to my house, finish the odds and ends and tune it before Takeover. He never made it. But as you all know, his truck did manage to get finished. Weeks later, we arranged for another time for him to come down, while he was in a neighboring town and he never called. All arrangements were made because I called him, he never attempted to make contact with me. As of approximately one month ago, all communications have ceased and I was left to diagnose, pay for and install: multiple large exhaust manifold leaks, bad O2 sensor, bad O2 sensor wiring, bad TPS, wasn't timed correctly (due to bad TPS), leaks from downpipe, large leak from throttle body shaft, bad PCV, clutch chatter bad idler pulley bearing, and suspected bad rings.

I realize that motor swaps take time and that the failed parts I listed above are commonplace in a motor of this age/mileage. However, that is not the condition that was described to me, nor what I expected. He advertised a "22re with BIG TURBO!" and it is still to be determined how "BIG" it is. As I can only muster up 1psi. Russell finished half of the job that I paid him for in full.

If he wanted to change his mind and finish what he was paid for, he has known where and how to find me for some time now. At the same time that I wrote this, I sent him a PM and a text message asking him for $200 to be refunded to me, to pay for the additional parts that I've paid for and labor that he didn't perform.

He is more than welcome to post his side of the story because as always, there are two sides. However, I will not reply. This is to be a reference for anyone interested in exchanging money for services with Russell. I do not recommend him and I will not purchase anything from him, nor will I use his services again.

Kyle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
Kyle,

First let's set a few things straight for the forums before you play the victim.

1. You told me to get it running. I seem to remember driving it on to your trailer under it's own power.

2. I told you in person and over one of the texts that it required custom plumbing. The motor was tuned from being in the truck previously and all I did was adjust the idle screw so it would idle with out the plumbing hooked up. Still the main concern for you was to get it running. It did.

3. We had set a time for me to tune it but you flaked, days before takeover. Yes I was at takeover. My truck ran fine. It's my daily. The time it went down was that gas tank issue I had a few weeks before co4rj I got it fixed before
that event.

4. I added and installed parts not originally included in what I sold you and I added them for free. I added the truck wiring harness cause yours had been so cut up it didnt work. When the swap was finished and you were standing in the garage I told you not to worry about it when you asked what was owed.I believe my exact words later in the conversation were " tell ya what, when you get the plumbing done and on I could make it work to swing by and tune it with the wideband if your worried about how it's set up." it wasting something we had said was part of the instal in the first place you just wanted it running. I stress that because you expressed over and over that it just needed to run you could take care of the rest.


I after the swap was complete you started messing with it. Timing it, driving it from the sounds of it, adjusting the maf and who knows whatelse. From the first text I got I told you not to mess with it. Get the plumbing on and I will shoot down and tune. By the time we were supposed to meet it sounds like it wasn't near tuned and from the sounds of your last texts it doesn't even run now. That wouldn't have happened providing you left it alone. Now my offer of tuning and diagnosing what you did to get it to that state are 2 different things. As about everyone on here knows I have tons of stuff going all the time so trying to fit a day in for free work is not as easy as it sounds. Who's to say it doesn't take days... From the sounds of it there isn't much you haven't touched.

As for times to meet. Texting me while I was at the campsite at takeover to come down and work on it= not the best time. 10pm on a Friday night again not the best time. I need a heads up to make it happen and from the sounds of it a day or so to get it running and tune it. So with those most recent 2 texts of trying to get me to give you a hand the 2nd one lead to a kind of awkward tone to the conversation. It pushed it to the point of do I really even wanna come down for this? I was looking for a car to buy as a driver the weekend I didn't call. The reason I didn't call was because I said I would give you a call if I was coming down your direction. The car I was to look at sold the day I was going to look at it. Honestly when I called for directions he sent me to voicemail cause he was doing the paper work. I also checked the forums cause that tone gave me an idea you would post something and you had. It's hard to deal with a person that can't keep a time and then wants it done now and if not will bitch on the forums.


So here's where I'm at.... And please read all of this. I'm done dealing with this. In order for me to tune it there is much more work involved then what I originally offered to do it. I left you with a timed running motor and from my understanding it doesn't even run anymore. I had asked several times that you stop messing with it and you failed to listen. I also set a date with you to come and tune it and you flaked not me. I got the truck running and it drove under it's own power on to your trailer witch is what you requested. I threw a full wiring harness from one of my rigs at it to make it work and adapted it to what you have set up. You were more then happy with the work preformed at the time you picked it up and later days and ever after changing our original agreement of paying for the parts first and labor when it was done you still payed in full and in cash. I adapted to how you wanted to do it and you still accepted the work with no issues when it was completed. If you weren't happy with it at that time something would have been said. I think that 200 would be eaten up buy extra wiring work and a full truck harness. I don't feel anything needs to be refunded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,296 Posts
Ok something doesn't add up. Kyle did you leave messages? If so Russ did you not return the calls? Communicatn here (or lack there-of) is key....

Not taking sides, just saying some details seem to be missing...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
Molly we text a lot. Pre takeover I was finishing my truck. And the 4 runner so time was scarce we set it up a week or two ahead and the night before he let me know he couldn't meet up. Honestly I responded to every text I received except one an that was the day after we text for a while and he made it weird. Wendy and I were in a movie and when we walked out I had 2 messages and felt the reminder the whole time... He stopped responding and started again at 7am. I didn't feel it was that important if he text me at 10pm then after a few text stopped. I was up working on my truck at 7 and didn't start responding to messages tel after noon. Not really something I wanted to drag out all day while I was using my phone for on the radio in the garage so I just had the ringer off. Plus the biggest pet peeve I have anymore is people that can't plan stuff or they do, don't show up and then want it now. I'm not directing that at Kyle 100% because I have it happen daily. It's like nobody else matters. Set a day and a time and make it or I move on. I'm too busy to chase people for anything. Sales, buying stuff, whatever. I had to explain that in the late night text that we needed a time that worked for both of us.

To be honest tho after getting a text, pm of the exact same thing and this post all with in seconds I think it's safe to say this text is just going to be a shot show that may or may not be worth posting in. Honestly he said what he wanted to say on the forum I gave my answer publicly. He can decide how long he wants to keep this up.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
7,735 Posts
Sounds like a shitty situation to me. I guess the definition of "just get it running" can be interpreted differently. For example, one could assume that means "done, everything hooked up, tested and functioning correctly and I can drive it home or on the trail" another could assume that simply means "turn over, and move under it's own power". But no plumbing?! Sure you can run a motor without coolant, but come on.

As for the outstanding problems:
multiple large exhaust manifold leaks
bad O2 sensor
bad O2 sensor wiring
bad TPS
wasn't timed correctly (due to bad TPS)
leaks from downpipe
large leak from throttle body shaft
bad PCV
clutch chatter
bad idler pulley bearing
suspected bad rings

It sounds like the wiring harness that Russ threw in for free and the motor had some issues.

We all take a risk when buying used parts, things like bad TPS, bad PCV, idler pulley bearings, bad rings don't strike me as all that unusual. That said, if it were me, I'd want some compensation if they weren't called out at the time of the sale (if not mentioned in the for sale thread). Tho it's rare for a seller to step up and refund money in that situation. Most sales have that out of site warranty, once it's out of site, the warranty expires.

Exhaust Manifold and down pipe leaks, perhaps the clutch chatter sounds like installation issues. Tho I could be wrong as I've never performed a turbo motor swap. Hell, I've never even worked on a turbo motor.

I'm not sure if deadline dates were discussed/agreed upon before the work started. But, Russ I get being busy, but if you committed to a certain amount of work by a given date... it seems like a bullshit excuse to me.

I won't even get into who called who, when and if that indicates unwillingness to work out the details.

I'm not sure what was paid for what (parts vs. labor), but it seems right to refund at least some of it. :2cents:

EDIT: As for the additional Tuning.. if that wasn't specifically agreed upon at the time of the sale, I'd say it would be "best effort" and should not be compensated because it wasn't done (for whatever reason).



As for those without something constructive to say, kindly refrain from posting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
Ok so im going to go through this list shortly..

multiple large exhaust manifold leaks- I never touched this this part of the motor and when i had finished putting it all in it was open downpipe. Sill didnt sound like it had any leaks tho.
bad O2 sensor- Yes Kyle had seen the wire pulled out of it before he purchased the motor. Nothing was said about replacing it...I was to get it in and get it running

bad O2 sensor wiring The truck wiring should be fine. I didnt pull loom or tape but the harness was an un cut 4runner harness that was in great shape. If there was an issue i couldnt tell because the O2 wasnt functional.

bad TPS- This is news to me. When the PO of the motor had it the motor ran perfect. I had tunned the motor for the PO with the old turbo on it and nothing was wrong with it...Shit the thing stepped sideways racing the maxima at about 100.

wasn't timed correctly (due to bad TPS)- The timing was set from the PO's truck nothing was changed during the install. The truck fired first try once we figured out the fuse was missing. It was flooded from our 3 hours of trying to figure out why it had no spark.

leaks from downpipe, Hard to say i believe this one. The DP had been on the PO's truck for a few years. No sign of anything leaking on the 2 or 3 foot pipe that was there. maybe at the v-band clamp holding it on...IDK

large leak from throttle body shaft- like i told Kyle i had no idea. The last incounter i had with the motor int he PO's truck this wasn't an issue. I had never had that issue working on the truck it came out of.

bad PCV-Didnt check it and had no reason to. When this thing left my house it ran fine and i think i told him this had been replaced because the PO had an issue with it and it caused the truck to smoke. This was all in the 100's of texts while he was wrenching

clutch chatter- To be expected. He has a used Centerforce clutch in the truck. When i pulled the motor from his truck the disk was soaked in oil or gear oil...Cant remember but it was a mess. I told him id clean it the best i could and put it in cause he didnt want the other clutch that came with the motor. Plus when he pulled up to the house the slave cylinder had been blown apart. It wasnt hooked up and the rod was on the trailer, The cylinder pushed out past the seal....I told him i thought i could make it work and put it back together..I did and blead it.

bad idler pulley bearing- This came from his old motor. I was told to put the best of the 2 on the motor going in. The one on the turbo motor had a chip in the pulley.

suspected bad rings- really hard for me to believe with the way this thing ran. When we first started the truck it had a tiny bit of smoke but it was from trying to figure out why it wouldnt run. The fuseblock i had pulled had been robbed of fuses and that wound up being the issue but it was so flooded from trying to fire it that it was to be expected due trying to fire it with no spark


Here's where im at with this.... I'm done with it. I told him to put the piping on and turn the idle back down. If it didnt run correctly let me know but dont fuck with it. He would text me with random questions...Why does it cut out...In my head im thinking about what would make it cut out while sitting in the garage running. Turns out the truck was driving... Now If it was not timed correctly and he kept trying to fix this issue and it was detnation then he could have doen some real damage by driving it over and over. Every time id get a text from Kyle is was something he was messing with he had a question about...Pretty soon my dont mess with it turned in to him being pissed off because now it smokes, Oil in the turbo, doent run....Much bigger job then just tunning it at this point witch is what my original offer was for. Above and beyond getting it running.

IIRC the motor was up for 2k...He came to me with the idea of having it in for 2 and i made it happen. I wasnt going to replace parts on the motor with new stuff or reseal anything or change anything other then what we talked about. I took the price i was asking for the motor and sold it installed for that. Look at it like he paid a grand or look at it like he got the install free. With the purchase of all of this he go no warranty implyed or stated and even if there was one it would be void because he took it apon himself to fuck with it right after getting the plumbing on. It sucks but its the truth. Toyota wont cover the warranty that you get on a new car is you take it home and just start fucking with it will they? Im not toyota and our deal was different but at the same time has the same basic idea. Had he not touched anything, Set up a time and fallowed through with it with out touching anything then id feel obligated to do something but at this point who knows. The motor could have been 100% perfect tuned and working great in the truggy for him OR it could have been a full on shit box that i got screwed on my self and id be making good with this guy.


At this point so much has changed and been messed with the work is not the same...Seeing how things are being discribed on here are not exactly what happened just how he sees it now i feel this will go nowhere. I told Mike who was there through all of this and the first one to hear it fire to read this post and the first words out of his mouth were...."thats not what happened" Same with my neighbor who had been there on drop off and pick up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
Ok so after a lot of thought and going against advice from lots of people here is what I'm willing to offer.

Kyle, the offer goes like this. I will make room at my house for it. You can drop it off tomorrow between 4-6 if this doesn't work we can make another time later but this is when I'm available. Leave the truck with me this weekend and I will take a look at it. IF work that I preformed has cause the problems you are having then I will fix it. If something that has been changed is the cause I will give you 2 options...1 pay me to repair it or 2. Take it and do it yourself/ have someone else do it.

I will tune it but if changes have been made that prevent me from doing so I will be able to tell you what's wrong with it and that's it. I won't be performing work at no cost that has been changed or adjusted due to your tinkering. So if the tps has been changed calibrate it and bring it up. If it's not calibrated correctly then I cannot claim any responsibility for it because I didn't perform the labor. I will go back over my work and claim responsibility for anything that I did incorrectly. I will set one time with you that we both agree on. Being late or not showing I will wash my hands of it. If everything is still good to tune then I will tune it and be done. Because this is such a huge deal and yesterday it was so important that i recieved a text,pm,this post then I also see it to be no problem to have a plan in motion by 8pm. If a plan is not reached by 10 then it must not be as important as i was lead to believe and my offer is void and this thread should be locked.


What do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
Well I think were done here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
618 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I was very impressed with your offer up until, "I guess we're done here". I don't get on here very often and I was outside working on the truck all day. The only reason I logged on was because I was notified by text message that I had received PM's.

I wrote an honest, factual and comprehensive review of my transaction with you and I meant every word of it, including "...I will not purchase anything from him, nor will I use his services again." This being said, I respectfully decline your offer for you to store my truck at your house and work on it without me there. I am, however, still asking for a $200 refund from the $2000 I payed you. A 10% refund is deserved in this situation. And with that money, I will gladly shake your hand and walk away from a fair transaction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
Well I will keep this breif then. You chose this form of communication and chose to make this a public discussion so that's how I responded. Now as far as the truck goes. I made an offer to make good on our deal and warranty my work. Even if you chose not to take me up on then I still made an attempt to make good. As for accurate your post if clearly one-sided,and jaded. The only words i said to mike and John( my neighbor that was here both when you dropped it and picked it up were... Check this out mike said " that's not what happened John said something along those lines. In the original post things were not mentioned like how you had planned to move the radiator to the rear of the truck or how this exhaust you are taking about is a piece of pipe and a glass pack that is short enough to fit in a plastic tub. It was not goin to bolt up to the new set up and needed modding. I believe your first post also left out how I kept telling you to stop messing with it but daily I was getting texts with questions about stuff you were workin on or how it surged whatever that means. Could have been detnation and you could have melted some rings or a cylinder by messing with it after that point.... Oh well it's besides the point now. We have come to our conclution with this situation.

As for the money....I will not be refunding any amount of money. The reason being is short and straight to the point. The work I preformed was complete per our agreement. The truck ran great. It drove on to the trailer. Could have even been ran na if you were in that big of a rush. You were pleased for a while after you had finished our deal by paying me and accepting the truck. Not tell you started timing it and adjusting things were you in happy.

I also made an attempt to warranty my work. Not only did you not communicate back to me on your choice for handleing this matter or even on the phone. There was no warranty on either so another attempted step above and beyond.... Kinda sounding like you need money for something.... Oh well not my business.

I believe this thread is due to be locked. You made your post and I made an attempt to make good and now it's going to be beating a dead horse and go no where.

To wrap up what turned out to be a longer post.... Kyle I do wish you luck in getting this thing running again. Like I advised you in your tinkering I would start by getting it all back to stock settings and adjust from that point. Sorry we couldn't close this on a better note.

Cliffs-Kyle declined my offer to make good, no refund of any kind will be issued. Motor was sold with no warranty stated or implied. As far as the work goes.... I said I'd make it run and it ran great all the way on to the trailer. Still offered to go back over it and if my labor caused any problems fix the problem and related issues due to my mistake. At this point it's a lost cause to continue this discussion. Wishing Kyle good luck in back tracking his steps to get the rig trail worthy
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top