[sdv9903]

i believe my vibration issue has decreased by 50% after installing the 3degree shims. It is now tolerable to me. I forget that it vibrates sometimes.

 

[mojavegold]

AWSUMDC: I agree that this issue is more than just simple Driveline angles. This should be as simple as driveline 101 class, but it isn't. I have had many lifted 4x4's and have never had this much trouble getting the vibe out of the DS. IMO the soft rubber in the carrier bearing support and trans mounts have a lot to do with percieved vibration. With toyotas factory angles the soft rubber mounts are not a big issue and probably cancel out any highway speed harmonics that you would feel through the chassis. But after lifting the truck these soft mounts become an issue and you tend to feel more vibe at slow speeds and a shudder when taking off from the light. IMO this is because the joints cancel each other out, but only after they are spinning at an off idle constant speed. So this initial shudder/vibe gets amplified by the soft rubber allowing the drivetrain to move more and you feel this through the chassis. When you combine the weight of the entire drivetrain, then allow if to vibe as a unit, this is easily transfered through the chassis. My thought is that correct angles, combined with poly trans mounts and a one piece shaft, should solve the issue. Let me know if this is too far off base, or if I'm on the right track here. DL 101 class is now enrolled

 

[SR5-2006]

FWIW,
OME 885s + Alcan AAL + 3 Deg shims + Front diff drop = Vibrations
Added Carrier Bearing Spacer = No Vibrations.
Swapped AAL to DAKARS = Vibrations.
Shimmed Carrier Bearing Spacer down = Less Vibrations but still there
Removed Front Sway Bar = No Vibrations.
This was only my experience, as you all know it seems that alot of our trucks behave differently to the same setups.

 

[awsumdc]

There is a fix that involves a drive shaft and the angle of the pinion once you lift these trucks. I'll go into it a little more once I have more time this weekend, but shimming your carrier bearing down is not the coorect way to do it. I did and it helped a little but came back after awhile with a vengence.

 

[ah64id]

One thing is I notice that many are fixing the vibs by shimming the same way they would a 96-04... but you cant do it that way anymore. The early tacos had a dual cardian joint at the carrier bearing, so all you needed to do was point the pinion at the carrier bearing.. well the dual cardian joint is now a normal CV so you have to match angles....

 

[mojavegold]

One thing is I notice that many are fixing the vibs by shimming the same way they would a 96-04... but you cant do it that way anymore. The early tacos had a dual cardian joint at the carrier bearing, so all you needed to do was point the pinion at the carrier bearing.. well the dual cardian joint is now a normal CV so you have to match angles....

X2 match angles within 1 degree and they cancel each other out...in theory. I did all of this and it still vibed. I wanted to throw the whole freeking set up in the trash and go back to stock When you drop the center support bearing, you increase the angle of the joint at the TC and front side of the support bearing, that opens up a new can "O" shit. You also need to take pinion climb into consideration. So the back joint needs to have some negative angle in it to compensate. You can't just point the pinion at the center support and call it good (without a double cardan the the center support). Props to AH64ID on that point. I really think that when the angles are set up properly, this issue has something to do with the rubber mounts transferring vibe to the chassis. I may be crazy, but what else could it be I understand DL theory, but I am not an expert. So, any input is greatly appreciated. If someone else comes up with a valid solution, that TOTALLY fixes the off idle shudder/vibe, I will tip my hat and give full credit.

 

[ah64id]

I think a lot of it is rubber mount stuff, I can feel things shift but its not a vib. Also, at normal ride height my OL spring isnt in full contact with the lower leaf, it takes a little axlewrap and it touches, so I think those of us with stock springs feel that OL leaf stoping axlewrap.

Mainly we pay too much attention to our damn trucks

 

[mojavegold]

10-4 It becomes an obsession after a while. The OL may be part of the problem with regards to axle wrap, which changes the pinion angle. I watched mine while we had it on the chassis dyno and it never made contact with the main leaf pack, even under hard acceleration. It came close, but didn't touch. I did see the DS bouncing around in the center support quite a bit, which is why I swapped in a one piece shaft. Some day soon we may get this problem figured out. Which is why we always tell peeps that once you start modding your rig, it never ends and there really is no free ride. Gas, Grass, or Ass, nobody rides for free

 

[barney387]

Why can't we find someone to meausure the STOCK angles of a STOCK drive shaft on a BONE STOCK Double Cab or Access CAb (Same shaft) and replicate it? Theoretically if you lift the truck but your angles are still stock (the slip yoke might be slightly extended from the lift) then it should run like stock, Right????

One more thing.. If you lay under your truck with your head lined up with the tcase u-joint, look straight down to the diff and you will find that the reason that they 2 pieced it in the first place is because they had to bend the shaft around the gas tank. It is not in a straight line. So you have to consider vertical angles as well as your HORIZONTAL angles. (I might have it backwards, but either way you get the point) This is why a straight one piece with u-joints on each end will vibrate.

Trust me, I currently have three shafts in my shed...


My Tom woods ds with CV's at both ends fixes the start off shudder COMPLETELY and works the best out of all three but still isn't quite as smooth as I think it should be at 75mph. And yes I just can't leave it alone either. A truck that has 17k on it shouldn't drive like a 75 Ford...

 

[justinh]

I put the driveshaft spacer block in when I did my complete Old man Emu suspension and I have ZERO vibrations. None. My truck rides better than stock.

What is the "driveshaft spacer block" and wear did you get it?

 

[mojavegold]

Barney: seems only logical doesn't it. Got a pic of the new tom woods shaft? You still have vibe or harmonics at freeway speed, but no shudder at start up? My shaft was set up in a straight line from the factory. The center support has a slotted mount, so you can move it around a bit. Did you mean that the t-case is offset in relationship to the pinion, or the center support is offset? That should be normal and is just an offset working angle. I'll have to crawl under the truck tomorrow and take a few measurements. X2 this truck should'nt vibe like an old ford.

 

[mojavegold]

What is the "driveshaft spacer block" and wear did you get it?

It's a center support bearing spacer. It drops the center support down. Wheelers has them.

 

[black SR5]

Any updates on this true and final fix for this annoying problem? I really want to lift my truck but I dont want to deal with this vibration and eventual failing of parts issue...

 

[awsumdc]

X2 match angles within 1 degree and they cancel each other out...in theory. I did all of this and it still vibed. I wanted to throw the whole freeking set up in the trash and go back to stock When you drop the center support bearing, you increase the angle of the joint at the TC and front side of the support bearing, that opens up a new can "O" shit. You also need to take pinion climb into consideration. So the back joint needs to have some negative angle in it to compensate. You can't just point the pinion at the center support and call it good (without a double cardan the the center support). Props to AH64ID on that point. I really think that when the angles are set up properly, this issue has something to do with the rubber mounts transferring vibe to the chassis. I may be crazy, but what else could it be I understand DL theory, but I am not an expert. So, any input is greatly appreciated. If someone else comes up with a valid solution, that TOTALLY fixes the off idle shudder/vibe, I will tip my hat and give full credit.

You are pretty much right on with your asumption of what the problems are when we lift these trucks.

Most people feel that just dropping down the carrier mount or throwing shims in there will take care of the problem. What they feel to realize is these trucks were designed with very exact tolerances and that engineering changes when we lift these things so the approach to fix the resulting problem is different.

Jesse at high angle drive line has a fix. He has a couple of different options depending on your specific application. I'd rather trust someone who knows our trucks and the specific engineering behind certain aspects of it, than to use trial and error to "see" what might work.

Here is link to his web site. http://www.highangledriveline.com/ Check out his website and give him a call. he's a great guy and willing to help.

 

[barney387]

Yeah, the T-cast is offset from the rear diff. I can't tell by how much, but lying under it and looking at it, it seems like a pretty big difference. IMO, I can't see why the stock 2 piece wouldn't/shouldn't work. I keep thinking that they designed it like this for a reason and if we could match the original geometry then it should work fine. I just don't want to take all my crap out to take a bunch of measurements. If I thought my 285/75's would fit without the lift, I would remove the whole damn thing and start over.

 

[awsumdc]

Yeah, the T-cast is offset from the rear diff. I can't tell by how much, but lying under it and looking at it, it seems like a pretty big difference. IMO, I can't see why the stock 2 piece wouldn't/shouldn't work. I keep thinking that they designed it like this for a reason and if we could match the original geometry then it should work fine. I just don't want to take all my crap out to take a bunch of measurements. If I thought my 285/75's would fit without the lift, I would remove the whole damn thing and start over.

The only way to match the original geometry is to leave it alone. Thats the problem. We mess with it and expect it to drive the same. You must take into consederation the changes you have made and factor in those changes with your new geometry. Jesse has done that. Call him. Save yourself the headache.

 

[mojavegold]

AWESUMDC; Thanks for the info. I'll give him a call and see what he says about this one. You're absolutely right, this has been a long drawn out battle of trial and error. I had the vibe gone, until I put the Dakars on, then it came back, but not as bad. I want the next fix to be the LAST FIX

 

[mojavegold]

I called High Angle DL today and their fix is a double cardan at the center support. He makes a complete custom shaft with all 1 ton 1350 series joints and it costs $750ish. I think I'll take my shaft out and have Drive Line service put a double cardan in it. I saved all the old parts when I went to a 1 piece shaft, so it's not cost effective for me buy a new unit complete.

 

[awsumdc]

I called High Angle DL today and their fix is a double cardan at the center support. He makes a complete custom shaft with all 1 ton 1350 series joints and it costs $750ish. I think I'll take my shaft out and have Drive Line service put a double cardan in it. I saved all the old parts when I went to a 1 piece shaft, so it's not cost effective for me buy a new unit complete.

Make sure when they do it, it is in phase. When I had my first one done I did the same thing you are talking about doing and ended up with a worse case of vibration than I did before. Like I said earlier, just having the parts installed dosen't mean you've got the fix correct. Good luck with that.

 

[mojavegold]

Make sure when they do it, it is in phase. When I had my first one done I did the same thing you are talking about doing and ended up with a worse case of vibration than I did before. Like I said earlier, just having the parts installed dosen't mean you've got the fix correct. Good luck with that.

10-4 yup, well aware of phase issue. I go back 20 years with this shop. They have done all my lifted trucks and race cars driveshafts to perfection. As I said before, this has been a science project. My one piece shaft worked fine until I lifted the back another 1.5 inches. High Angle DL is not the only shop on the planet that is capable of building a quality DS. But I do appreciate your input, so please don't take that the wrong way. We had a detailed conversation yesterday and I have the numbers correct for the angles, pinion climb, etc.. They were very helpful at High Angle. This is just a matter of using a CV at the center support and changing the axle shim for the new 2 piece shaft. In reality, this issue is a freeking PITA. 2.5 inches of lift is nothing and on most trucks would be an easy fix. Toyota dropped the ball on this one, cause my DS had a small shudder vibe stock!! The dealer wouldn't even acknowledge it and claimed the truck was fine. I drove a few others and they had the same shudder/vibe, so I know I'm not dreaming.This truck is just a PITA finicky be-otch when it comes to DL vibe issues We'll see if this fixes the prob. Thanks for the info.
P.S. don't go out and mod your DS on this advice. I personally don't know if this mod works. So, proceed at your own risk. or, call High Angle and ante up the $750 ponies for the new shaft. I don't want any hate mail if you spend your hard earned cash and your DS shop messes up your factory parts. Awsumdc has a point there. Not all shops are created equal, so beware.