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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Update: Not another air filter post.

Today I got the most pleasant surprise when I opened the air-box on my 04 Matrix (I know, not a Taco, it’s the daily driver) for the first cleaning of my TRD air filter -- my 70-k mile never been cleaned or even looked at air filter.

The cleanliness of the box inspired me to take pictures and do the “white glove test” and share this info.

A while back I had a K&N filter in my Tacoma only to find it did not seal or mate well with the air-box. It let in a lot of dirt and it was real easy to see where it was coming from as evidenced by the massive amount of dust radiating from the leak spots. I removed the K&N and installed the TRD filter and after 25-K miles I still have a clean air-box.





Yuck, 70-k mile TRD filter




clean air box




ok, its not a white glove but a white sock.




Eeeww not a pretty close up.

I am starting to wonder if some of the folks around here who have reported less than satisfactory filtering results from their K&N’s suffered from a poor seal and not so much the performance of the filter itself.




The oil analysis test report I read a few years back pointed to the K&N/TRD type filters working well, depending on ones application. In a nut shell this guy performed the long term test on a road vehicle for 60-k miles, performing oil analysis along the way. He did not clean or service the oil gauze type filter in any way during the long term test. What he found is that this type of filter let in more dirt compared to the stock paper filter for the first 20-k miles or so. He found that from 20-K to about 40-K the filter performed about the same as a stock paper filter. He found that from 40-K to the 60-K the filter actually filtered better than the stock paper filter. The filter at 60-K still breathed better than a new stock paper filter. His conclusion was that the filter needs to be a bit dirty in order for it to filter well. If I had the link I would include it in this post, I’m just too lazy to find it and I am not looking to prove anything anyway.

With this in mind I would not recommend running a new or newly cleaned TRD air filter for real dusty off road conditions. But hey, if you are fast enough to stay in front….
 

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Nice test Bent Wheel,

Your used filter looks like my lint trap on my dryer after couple loads of dark laundry!

I actually think it used to say in the K & N manual that the filter does better job filtering when it gets dirty. The main problem with these "Wet" type of filters is when the owners service the filters and over oils them, this will cause the contamination/coating of the MAF sensor and then CEL, which I hear is one of the number one complaints Toyota gets from people having this type of filter.

I usually go back and forth with the TRD filter and stock Toyota Air filter, since the factory filter is $$, but has proven to flow very well on the dyno.

I drive alot in dusty, desert conditions and the TRD filter does well, but I think I will stick with the Factory Toyota airfilter for now on.

df
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh yah, I have read a lot about too much oil causing problems with the mass airflow sensor. I just serviced my filter this evening for the first time and kept this in mind. I hope I did well. I’ll soon find out.
 

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Just spray a light even coating and let the oil wick into the gauze and repeat after half hour if there are light/dry spots.

df
 

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The main problem with these "Wet" type of filters is when the owners service the filters and over oils them, this will cause the contamination/coating of the MAF sensor and then CEL, which I hear is one of the number one complaints Toyota gets from people having this type of filter.
That is K&Ns way of covering their asses in liability suits. Years ago I picked one up and it fowled out my MAF. I guess it came "over oiled" from the factory. Oiled filters and mass air systems just don't mix. I have heard similar complaints from owners of turbo charged engines when they start cranking up the boost. The higher intake velocity sucks the oil clean off the filter. Back in the day of the carb oil migration wasn't an issue. It also isn't much of an issue on MAP systems. For MAF I think the new generation of synthetic dry filters is the way to go.
 

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That is K&Ns way of covering their asses in liability suits. Years ago I picked one up and it fowled out my MAF. I guess it came "over oiled" from the factory. Oiled filters and mass air systems just don't mix. I have heard similar complaints from owners of turbo charged engines when they start cranking up the boost. The higher intake velocity sucks the oil clean off the filter. Back in the day of the carb oil migration wasn't an issue. It also isn't much of an issue on MAP systems. For MAF I think the new generation of synthetic dry filters is the way to go.
X2. My Outlaw dry filter filters really well and is washable.

IIRC, Ford actually voids the warrenty on thier engines if the truck was equipped with a KandN. It doesn't seal good enough, and the turbo just sucks the oil and dirt right in.
 

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Bent:Great post dude! I like the white sock test...wonder where that idea came from?:) X2 Norcal. I had a ford turbo diesel and they are very picky with warranty issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
That is K&Ns way of covering their asses in liability suits. Years ago I picked one up and it fowled out my MAF. I guess it came "over oiled" from the factory. Oiled filters and mass air systems just don't mix. I have heard similar complaints from owners of turbo charged engines when they start cranking up the boost. The higher intake velocity sucks the oil clean off the filter. Back in the day of the carb oil migration wasn't an issue. It also isn't much of an issue on MAP systems. For MAF I think the new generation of synthetic dry filters is the way to go.
Yah, I was kind of thinking that I would oil it light and keep my foot out of it for a few thousand miles of so. My thought is that I will cake it up a bit before I go wide open throttle.


I am starting to figure out that this type of filter requires thought and discipline in order to achieve success. But with discipline I feel I will achieve great results with this technology.

I am thinking of one day trying the new nano fiber dry technology or what ever AMS oil is calling their new filter. I hear they are hard to get as of now. Oh well with what I have found, I am in no hurry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
X2. My Outlaw dry filter filters really well and is washable.

IIRC, Ford actually voids the warrenty on thier engines if the truck was equipped with a KandN. It doesn't seal good enough, and the turbo just sucks the oil and dirt right in.
I am interested in dry technology for the stated reasons.

Has anybody done any long term results as far as white sock test or oil analysis?
 

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the reason it filters so well is because it hasnt been cleaned in over 70k miles. it is so clogged up that nothing gets by it. i wouldnt be surprised if you noticed a performance improvement if you threw a new clean filter in there. the airbox was sucked clean of any remnants of dirt that may have initially passed the filter long ago. swap in a new paper filter temporarily and tell us if you notice any performance difference.
 

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it is so clogged up that nothing gets by it. i wouldnt be surprised if you noticed a performance improvement if you threw a new clean filter in there.
I agree. I don't think an air filter should EVER get that dirty (no matter what kind it is). I hope you change your oil filter more often :D
 

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I am interested in dry technology for the stated reasons.

Has anybody done any long term results as far as white sock test or oil analysis?
I'm going wheeling on June 1 2 and 3. It's dusty out. If it filters through that, it should be good to filter period.

Thier dry filters are only the conical type though. They do not make drop it replacements.
 

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I'm going wheeling on June 1 2 and 3. It's dusty out. If it filters through that, it should be good to filter period.

Thier dry filters are only the conical type though. They do not make drop it replacements.
i ended up getting a snorkel.. hopefully i wont have any more issues with dust. my air filters usually need to be replaced after just one wheeling trip.. after AZ Rocks im surprised my truck still ran with all that dirt in the filter
 

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i ended up getting a snorkel.. hopefully i wont have any more issues with dust. my air filters usually need to be replaced after just one wheeling trip.. after AZ Rocks im surprised my truck still ran with all that dirt in the filter
when i got home i took mine out and tapped it on the concrete and about a literal handful of sand fell out of it. :D good as new, threw it back in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
the reason it filters so well is because it hasnt been cleaned in over 70k miles. it is so clogged up that nothing gets by it. i wouldnt be surprised if you noticed a performance improvement if you threw a new clean filter in there. the airbox was sucked clean of any remnants of dirt that may have initially passed the filter long ago. swap in a new paper filter temporarily and tell us if you notice any performance difference.
Thank you everybody for your input. Sometimes this noob needs all the help he can get. I know for a fact that you guys have a lot of useful experience.

Yes, I agree that the older and dirtier the filter, the better the filtering potential.

I don’t know if I agree with the logic, “The box is clean because the filter is so clogged it won’t let in dirt”. Because why did the filter not let in dirt in the early stages of the 70-K mile run? If I were to use your logic then I would expect to see dirt in the air box from the early stages of the 70-K mile test run.

Confession: I had no time to wait for the filter to dry last night so I drove to school about 1.9 miles with no filter. Yes I did notice a small difference in the way the car breathed but no difference in performance. End of confession.

Today I installed the newly cleaned and oiled TRD filter and felt no difference compared to the dirty filter. I do have to agree, logic would dictate that a dirty filter can’t breathe as well as a clean filter, just not enough for me to realize. And yes I am in tune with how my cars feel.

On a side note, a few years back while shopping at Monument car parts near Martinez, I came across a K&N counter display, some people here may have seen it. It had an air flow device that let’s one test the air flow performance of different filters. This display used a cool visual display that enabled the user to easily see the flow. The two filters used in the display were a new Fram paper filter and the other was a claimed 50-K mile filter from K&N. This K&N filter looked every bit as dirty as the 70-K mile TRD filter in my post. The display showed me that the 50-K mile K&N filter clearly flowed a lot better than the new Fram paper filter, a lot better.

Yes, Stroonzo I change my oil and filter too often according to some of the folks here. I change every 5-K miles and I use Mobil One, my Tacoma every 3-K miles Mobil One. And yes, maybe an air filter should never get that dirty, but I was only testing the results of the oil analysis test I wrote of, the test that told me that the dirtier filter will filter better than a new clean filter. Combined with what I saw at the counter display (50-K mile K&N flowing better than a new Fram paper) made me go the long haul to see for myself.

I would have to say that I am impressed with what I found and plan to go another 50-K at least between cleanings. As for the Tacoma… probably the same.

The Tacoma has 25-K on the filter, and according to the oil analysis, I am now past the point of less filtration than the new paper filter. In other words if I believe the test results I am now in the prime of the filters service life.

I must stress that I am the noob, so please if anyone has something to add, please do.
 

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Because why did the filter not let in dirt in the early stages of the 70-K mile run? If I were to use your logic then I would expect to see dirt in the air box from the early stages of the 70-K mile test run.
the airbox was sucked clean of any remnants of dirt that may have initially passed the filter long ago.
:D thats just my guess though. if they work for you then by all means, enjoy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
:D thats just my guess though. if they work for you then by all means, enjoy.
Uuh… I… uuh.. need to work on my reading skills. You clearly wrote

“the airbox was sucked clean of any remnants of dirt that may have initially passed the filter long ago”.

Still, I don’t think all of the dirt could have been sucked out. The white sock test would have showed something. This box was just too clean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I put my AEM through a day of hell and I think it did ok. A little got past, but that is to be expected from an exposed cone filter.

On the outside:



On the inside:

Oh-my-God,

What on earth are you doing that you got so dirty in one day? Racing behind another truck? Man-o-man, are you wearing a dust mask for your lungs?

I bet you had fun though.
 

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Oh-my-God,

What on earth are you doing that you got so dirty in one day? Racing behind another truck? Man-o-man, are you wearing a dust mask for your lungs?

I bet you had fun though.
wheeling in the desert or mud bogging will pretty much destroy an air filter in a day. especially an open cone filter like that, which is why those filters and aftermarket cold air intakes are not recommended by the offroad community.
 
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