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Discussion Starter #1
I have been kicking around some front suspension ideas because of the uptravel stiffness I have found with my adjustable coilovers.
I've been into wheeling for quite a few years, and we always wanted to have a soft pliable suspension to soak up the bumps, dips, and rocks. I have found so far that I can't compress my front suspension to the bump stops even when the rear is compressed in all its travel. Basically this means the rear is a lot softer than the front. I can understand this with the engine and most of the weight up there, and needing to be stiffer. I assume the idea of the shocks were built around the idea of giving a good ride (which they do) with dampening, and not allowing bottoming out with spring rate.
So--
I did some observations, and crunched some numbers. I found that most of the adjustable coilovers are 650 lb coils, and have a 4.5-5.93 shock stroke. The regular Donohoe are 5 and extended are 5.4 inches. Now OME Shocks are 5.4 inches in stroke, and springs come in 3 different lengths, all having the same 500 lb spring rate. I would think that the OME would allow for easier compression, and a less jarring ride going through slow technical terrain, and the adjustable coils would be better for high speed dampening action. Given that the spring rate is not lowered, along with the ride height, say at 2-2.5 inches--Is this right?
Do OME fronts have better full travel flex for slow terrain 4 wheeling?
 

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Toyota4ever said:
I have been kicking around some front suspension ideas because of the uptravel stiffness I have found with my adjustable coilovers.
I've been into wheeling for quite a few years, and we always wanted to have a soft pliable suspension to soak up the bumps, dips, and rocks. I have found so far that I can't compress my front suspension to the bump stops even when the rear is compressed in all its travel. Basically this means the rear is a lot softer than the front. I can understand this with the engine and most of the weight up there, and needing to be stiffer. I assume the idea of the shocks were built around the idea of giving a good ride (which they do) with dampening, and not allowing bottoming out with spring rate.
So--
I did some observations, and crunched some numbers. I found that most of the adjustable coilovers are 650 lb coils, and have a 4.5-5.93 shock stroke. The regular Donohoe are 5 and extended are 5.4 inches. Now OME Shocks are 5.4 inches in stroke, and springs come in 3 different lengths, all having the same 500 lb spring rate. I would think that the OME would allow for easier compression, and a less jarring ride going through slow technical terrain, and the adjustable coils would be better for high speed dampening action. Given that the spring rate is not lowered, along with the ride height, say at 2-2.5 inches--Is this right?
Do OME fronts have better full travel flex for slow terrain 4 wheeling?
very well thought out. And, in practice, all true. I really miss the full-travel articulation that the OME sus gave me but after adding all the weight I have now the 500# springs and shocks just couldn't handle it. the 675# SAWs that i have now hold the weight great but don't flex nearly as well. Most all of the aftermarket adjustable coilovers are designed for running fast on bumpy terrain, not rock crawling. For slow trail riding, the OMEs cannot be beat, IMO...as long as you don't have a winch and heavy bumper up front. disconnecting the sway bar gave me about 2" more total travel on the trail from left to right but with these SAWS I don't seem to benefit as much.

Downey says their adjustables are the exception but I have't tried them nor do I know anyone who has their kit. The coils are 600# so should be stiffer than the OMEs. I also don't know what their coil height is.

If I can find a 600# coil for a 2" shock that is 15-16" tall I may swap these out one of these days...or just try Downey's.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It seems the closest thing is Allpro, but it seems there are not a lot of takers out there, like myself, that just don't spent the extra dollars and get Donahoe's. Not a lot of first hand experience out there on the Allpro stuff.
But the spec's are 18.23 open 12.30 compressed= 5.93 shock stroke, 550 lb spring that is 14 inches long... Not as beefy as the competition's spring and shock diameter, but the spec's relate a longer travel, and more uptravel capability.
For the type of wheeling I do this works. Maybe in time I will find someone that has some of this stuff and see how it performs.
 

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Very interesting. This is what I have come to think as well. I want a plush ride on slow rough stuff also and pretty much found what I want with my HD's on stock springs. The only problem is I want about a one inch lift up front to level it out and give a little more fender clearance but all the avenues have trade offs I'm not sure about. Here are the issues...OME 880s should give me a little over an inch after they settle but have the left side squat issue and reported time sagging. Also the spring rate is higher than stock therefor not as smooth. Where as a one inch spacer will give me the lift I need but everybody says spacers ride like hell, although I'm not convinced a one inch is enough to ride bad. Will the spacer allow good flex?

Then we have the rear...I like my rear hight but I want to get ride of the axle wrap issue in 2wd on sand. Hops like a crazy and that's with rear springs that only have 30,000 miles on them. I have heard of stock replacement Deavers but haven't seen them on their web site. If these things exist, would they give good flex, ride and eliminate the hop while maintaining stock hight? Oh the joys of 'cyfering all this stuff out. It makes my brain bleed but I want it done right.
 

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7wt said:
...Here are the issues...OME 880s should give me a little over an inch after they settle but have the left side squat issue and reported time sagging.
can't you use the trim packer (a simple 5mm thick shim) to combat the driver side issue with OME springs? i got the 881's and ordered 1 trim (5mm) for driver side.

turns out the trim will not work with my bils.
 

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7wt said:
Very interesting. This is what I have come to think as well. I want a plush ride on slow rough stuff also and pretty much found what I want with my HD's on stock springs. The only problem is I want about a one inch lift up front to level it out and give a little more fender clearance but all the avenues have trade offs I'm not sure about. Here are the issues...OME 880s should give me a little over an inch after they settle but have the left side squat issue and reported time sagging. Also the spring rate is higher than stock therefor not as smooth. Where as a one inch spacer will give me the lift I need but everybody says spacers ride like hell, although I'm not convinced a one inch is enough to ride bad. Will the spacer allow good flex?

Then we have the rear...I like my rear hight but I want to get ride of the axle wrap issue in 2wd on sand. Hops like a crazy and that's with rear springs that only have 30,000 miles on them. I have heard of stock replacement Deavers but haven't seen them on their web site. If these things exist, would they give good flex, ride and eliminate the hop while maintaining stock hight? Oh the joys of 'cyfering all this stuff out. It makes my brain bleed but I want it done right.
the only true cure for axle wrap is stiffer leafpks or a traction bar. Stiffer springs will limit flex (I have nwor hd springs and no wrap problem at all but flex is lacking). Traction bars are pricy but enable you to use very flexy springs w/o the axle wrap problem.

A 1" front spacer kit (1/2" thick) won't effect your ride much and flex will remain the same.
880s will give you the same lift (depending on engine and truck model) but OME coils, in general, provide excellent articulation even though they are slightly heavier then OE coils (depending on what truck you have since OE v6 dcab coils are the same weight or more).
 

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i just ordered their upper A-Arms
I also ordered their rear lift kit
I am very happy with the rear lift so far, have yet to install upper A-Arms
I need to have my SAW's revalved and recharged/have new Tundra coils put on as well
I say ALL PRO all the way, great customer service IMO
 

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hytenor said:
A 1" front spacer kit (1/2" thick) won't effect your ride much and flex will remain the same.
880s will give you the same lift (depending on engine and truck model) but OME coils, in general, provide excellent articulation even though they are slightly heavier then OE coils (depending on what truck you have since OE v6 dcab coils are the same weight or more).
It's a V6 extracab. Will the 880s work well with my new HDs or would I be better off with the spacers?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Show pics when you get it together and get to play.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This is a good article on the Old man emu suspension.
It's a PDF file.

OME article
 

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7wt said:
It's a V6 extracab. Will the 880s work well with my new HDs or would I be better off with the spacers?
they work fine with the HD bils (but not the OE bils) With the v6 you'll get 1/2-1" of lift after they settle. They will be much better than a spacer in your OE coils.
 

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Good to know. That's what I was leaning to anyway. Thanks for the input.
 

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Toyota4ever said:
Show pics when you get it together and get to play.
do you have any pics of your truck??? that is the exact setup i want!!!
 

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Good discussion! I have the 882 n91 combo and they are a very compliant combo for my rig.. about all the travel you can get from the stock arms.. I recieved some ribbing and naysayers when I mentioned this..


They are not highspeed coilovers but they are great offroad shocks and coils and in my opinion provide very goos performance without straying too far from stock.

 

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Toyota4ever said:
I have been kicking around some front suspension ideas because of the uptravel stiffness I have found with my adjustable coilovers.
I've been into wheeling for quite a few years, and we always wanted to have a soft pliable suspension to soak up the bumps, dips, and rocks. I have found so far that I can't compress my front suspension to the bump stops even when the rear is compressed in all its travel. Basically this means the rear is a lot softer than the front. I can understand this with the engine and most of the weight up there, and needing to be stiffer. I assume the idea of the shocks were built around the idea of giving a good ride (which they do) with dampening, and not allowing bottoming out with spring rate.
So--
I did some observations, and crunched some numbers. I found that most of the adjustable coilovers are 650 lb coils, and have a 4.5-5.93 shock stroke. The regular Donohoe are 5 and extended are 5.4 inches. Now OME Shocks are 5.4 inches in stroke, and springs come in 3 different lengths, all having the same 500 lb spring rate. I would think that the OME would allow for easier compression, and a less jarring ride going through slow technical terrain, and the adjustable coils would be better for high speed dampening action. Given that the spring rate is not lowered, along with the ride height, say at 2-2.5 inches--Is this right?
Do OME fronts have better full travel flex for slow terrain 4 wheeling?
I'm running OME 881s with a 1" corfed spacer on N91s shocks with 1 trimpacer on drivers side. I have had this set up for 1 1/2 years and it has treated me well. I can not compare to any of the more expensive lifts as I have not had them. It does ride better than the Rancho set up I had and the stock set up. I also was not willing to spend the extra money for the the adjustable setups. I'm sure that they would be better, just that the OME setup works well for me and I think a good compromise for the money... as always IMHO! :welder:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I have really been getting into this OME stuff. I really think I should have started there for the type of wheeling I do here in Northern California.

The Tundra coil thing that people are talking about really has me scratching my head. Until we know the real numbers on the spring there's no telling. I would want to know spring rate and length of the spring. They aren't that much money, but who is going to buy them if it didn't work out? Now if I try Old Man Emu, I am pretty sure there would be a few takers on those if it turned out that I did like my Donohoe's more. ;)

One interesting thing I was figuring last night is that the 880, 881, and 882 all have the same spring rates, but also that they have the same wind of coils (10.2). So, the springs are just "stretched" longer to provide the additional height. What this means to me is that if you have the weight to compress them, based on the Toyota geometry they are all going to be able to compress to the same point without binding. I was a little worried that with the longer spring that coil bind maybe a problem and limit uptravel.

Looks pretty promising for me going to the 882's. I am seriously going to give it a try, I just have to find a good price, and figure which shock-- the n91S or the n91SC?
 

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Toyota4ever said:
I have really been getting into this OME stuff. I really think I should have started there for the type of wheeling I do here in Northern California.

The Tundra coil thing that people are talking about really has me scratching my head. Until we know the real numbers on the spring there's no telling. I would want to know spring rate and length of the spring. They aren't that much money, but who is going to buy them if it didn't work out? Now if I try Old Man Emu, I am pretty sure there would be a few takers on those if it turned out that I did like my Donohoe's more. ;)

One interesting thing I was figuring last night is that the 880, 881, and 882 all have the same spring rates, but also that they have the same wind of coils (10.2). So, the springs are just "stretched" longer to provide the additional height. What this means to me is that if you have the weight to compress them, based on the Toyota geometry they are all going to be able to compress to the same point without binding. I was a little worried that with the longer spring that coil bind maybe a problem and limit uptravel.

Looks pretty promising for me going to the 882's. I am seriously going to give it a try, I just have to find a good price, and figure which shock-- the n91S or the n91SC?
I have the N91SC's, I wouldn't want the ride to be much rougher. The "C" stands for comfort.
 

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Toyota4ever said:
I have really been getting into this OME stuff. I really think I should have started there for the type of wheeling I do here in Northern California.

The Tundra coil thing that people are talking about really has me scratching my head. Until we know the real numbers on the spring there's no telling. I would want to know spring rate and length of the spring. They aren't that much money, but who is going to buy them if it didn't work out? Now if I try Old Man Emu, I am pretty sure there would be a few takers on those if it turned out that I did like my Donohoe's more. ;)

One interesting thing I was figuring last night is that the 880, 881, and 882 all have the same spring rates, but also that they have the same wind of coils (10.2). So, the springs are just "stretched" longer to provide the additional height. What this means to me is that if you have the weight to compress them, based on the Toyota geometry they are all going to be able to compress to the same point without binding. I was a little worried that with the longer spring that coil bind maybe a problem and limit uptravel.

Looks pretty promising for me going to the 882's. I am seriously going to give it a try, I just have to find a good price, and figure which shock-- the n91S or the n91SC?
I have the n91s's. They are "firm" at speed but in the rocks and ruts they are compliant and stop the truck from swaying around when others are rocking and rolling. . I run without the swaybar disconnected for almost two years now. Improved the inline performance, I just have to live with a little more body roll in tight corners it's a personal preference. The OME's have served me well. Gotta wonder when/if mine will ever wear out. beaches, street and froading has to take it's toll evenetually. 2 years 3 months and counting.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You mean that you disconnected the swaybar, and are living with a little body roll for two years right? It's preference...

Just want to make sure

Your combination gives pretty much the factory TRD ride with the 91s combination?
 

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OME full setup...love it. Best setup for combination driving - street and off road.
 
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