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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been thinking of ways to fuel inject my 20R, without having to deal with mismatching parts from a 22RE, etc. Land Cruiser guys have been doing the GM TBI swap for years, and it works well (because TBI works well). The computer is pretty easy to reprogram (so I think), and all the parts are easily found in a junkyard or at any common parts store.

The LC crowd used TBI from 4.3 V6 S-10's and Astros. The 4.3 throttle body works well because a 2F is 4.2L, so it's a good match. To match my 2.2L 20R, I need to find a 2.8 V6 throttle body from an S-10 (the puny V6). I've read that you want to keep the TBI system within 30% of the original engine size.

I have everything worked out in my head, but I still have some hangups:
1. I want to use the stock sensors from the 2.8 donor. I'll need to find adapters, and/or drill and tap new holes in my manifolds, etc.

2. No one seems to make a TBI to Toyota adapter. I don't really *like* the 2 piece Weber adapter, but using the bottom plate of that, and make my own top plate is probably the route I'm going. The plate on the left in the pic below is the one I'll use, and make the top plate bolt to it.



Anyone good at milling/fabbing aluminum plate? :)

3. I'd like to *not* buy an expensive Painless harness for the TBI, so getting intimate with a GM FSM is probably in my future.

4. Adapting the current throttle setup to the TBI. Probably get a longer cable, and fab some brackets.

My ultimate goal is for it to be as "bolt-on" as possible, with minimal custom parts, and also easily reversible. This is mostly an experiment, and I don't want my truck down forever if it doesn't work out.

Some good reading:
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/tbi.html
http://www.tomquinn.com/lc/2f_fi/index.html
http://www.olympiafj60.net/2f-tbi-carb-replacemnet.html

Other links I've found:
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47254
http://www.iei.net/~msmythe/TBI/tbi_info.htm
http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/4PlusTBIComponents.htm
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/258285-my-tbi-adventure-so-far.html
http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=73_64&products_id=54
http://www.thirdgen.org/promintro
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/1227747/
http://www.moates.net/documentation.php?documentation_id=10
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/general-discussion/performance/tbi-tuning-87-95-obd-i-ecm-pcm/276965-tbi-tuning-guide.html
http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/tpi_pigtails.aspx

Quick and dirty parts list:
Bosch 13077 3 wire heated O2 Sensor
Master E2182 fuel pump (or a E8094 [use this!])/Fram G-3 filter
Motormite non-fouler 42009
Dorman 800-153 (fuel line kit/fittings for TB)

Wish me luck. :D
 

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didnt they have tbi on the chevy 2.5 liter 4 bangers??
 

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I think I'd just go to propane. Seems a lot easier to me. But then again, this would be a pretty cool swap if you can figure it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
didnt they have tbi on the chevy 2.5 liter 4 bangers??
Yep, but I think they are single injector, 1 barrel units. The 2.8 is a dual injector, 2 barrel. More powah! (maybe :rolleyes: )

I think I'd just go to propane. Seems a lot easier to me. But then again, this would be a pretty cool swap if you can figure it out.
Thought about it, and priced it. For the price of it, I could get a 22RE from someone, and rebuild it. I'm thinking this little project will come in under $300, until I start buying chip programmers and code scanners. Plus, propane isn't that easy to get around here, and I'm not sure how legal it is for the street.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
One other thing to add to the list.

5. Ignition integration. The cruiser guys had it easy since they could upgrade to a fancy GM style HEI distributor that worked with the ECM. Not sure what I'll do yet.
 

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that easy to get around here, and I'm not sure how legal it is for the street.

I don't think legality would be a problem. A lot of the Entergy pickups run on propane.
 

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back in the 80's it was very common to see trucks with HUGE propane tanks in the back, i think a couble 20 gallon/pound whatever tanks would get you alot of miles :dunno:

i just acquired a 83 model truck with a 21R-U :eek:
 

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3. I'd like to *not* buy an expensive Painless harness for the TBI, so getting intimate with a GM FSM is probably in my future.
I might be able to help you with that.... :) you've got a pm.
 

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There have been some writeups on addinf VW/AUDI mechanical fuel injection to carbed toyota 4cyl motors, but I havent really searched for them as finding the parts in my neck of the woods would be virtually impossable. I'd imagine these parts would be easier to find in your area.

From what I have been told you need the airbox, intake tube, throttle body, and associated wires, injectors, ect. You have to build your own adapter and the throttlebody mounts horizontally, instead of vertically like the gm tbi setups, which makes this part even easier. The best part about it is......



NO COMPUTER!

I have to find a thread/writeup now! Let me look around.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've looked at the ZOR setup before, but never really could find alot of info about it. I don't seem to run across many VW/AUDI parts around here either, though I've never really looked.

It looks like a neat system, but I'm not crazy about all the proprietary parts, intake tubes, and the intake to head adapter/spacer. Or the cost. Or the fact that I have to buy the kit just to get the parts list for the AUDI parts. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, I haven't done much. I went to the junkyard, and found that there's plenty of parts. I need to go when the heat index isn't 100+, and the sun isn't high in the sky.

I did remember that once upon a time, Offenhauser made a 4 barrel intake for Toyota 20R's. Googled around a bit, and found one. It's expensive though. :( $337.84 expensive.

http://http://www.offyparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_25/products_id/918


This would solve the adapter problem, as TBI to 4 bbl adapters are available all day long.

If you stumble across a used Offy intake manifold, let me know. :)
 

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Well, I haven't done much. I went to the junkyard, and found that there's plenty of parts. I need to go when the heat index isn't 100+, and the sun isn't high in the sky.

I did remember that once upon a time, Offenhauser made a 4 barrel intake for Toyota 20R's. Googled around a bit, and found one. It's expensive though. :( $337.84 expensive.

http://http://www.offyparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_25/products_id/918


This would solve the adapter problem, as TBI to 4 bbl adapters are available all day long.

If you stumble across a used Offy intake manifold, let me know. :)
you do realize the intake pictured is for a 22R

20R intake has round ports :thumbs: thats a great idea though
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This project lives again!

I was at the junkyard the other day, and I couldn't pass up a perfect harness/sensor/ECM combo that was easy to get. Now the fun begins.

Anyone good at milling aluminum plate? :D
 

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This project lives again!

I was at the junkyard the other day, and I couldn't pass up a perfect harness/sensor/ECM combo that was easy to get. Now the fun begins.

Anyone good at milling aluminum plate? :D

What are you needing to mill? Are you looking to mill the head, or the intake?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I've been pretty busy with this conversion over the past 2 months.

So far I've...
  • Trimmed down the wiring harness to just the required circuits
  • Tested the harness out of the truck with all the sensors plugged in
  • Modified the ECM to accept newer EEPROMS and the Emulator
  • Sourced more parts from the junkyard - mostly connectors and air cleaner parts
  • Fabbed an aluminum adapter plate to bolt the TBI to the 20R intake
  • Plugged off all unnecessary ports in the intake
  • Welded up the O2 bung on the header, and bought a new heated O2 sensor
  • Sourced a 22RE distributor, installed it, and got the base timing set
  • Fabbed up and found locations for all the sensors, modules, coil, etc.
  • Removed old crap - like vacuum hoses, charcoal canisters, etc.
  • Connected everything to the engine and wiring harness - so far no Check Engine Light.
  • Plus a dozen other things I'm probably forgetting.
... and to top it all of, I started it. IT RUNS!! :headbang::woot::xrocker:

At first it ran like poop and wouldn't idle for crap, dumping too much gas and backfiring through the throttle body, but I realized that I might have reversed the white/red wire from the dist where it hooks to the ignition module. Once I switched that, and capped a vacuum port I missed, it started and ran like it was fresh off the factory assembly line. :D

I'm now playing with tuning the ECM. There's enough stuff in the programming to boggle the mind, but luckily there's plenty of info on what to change and what it does on the 'net.

I still have a laundry list of things to do...

  • Figure out how to connect the gas pedal to the throttle body. I had to hack off a large chunk of the bracketery to make it fit on the engine.
  • Finish the harness - still need to merge in the starter signal wire, the extra O2 sensor wires, check engine light, and tape it all up nice and pretty.
  • Mount the harness with some clips and sheet metal screws
  • Weld up the leaks around the O2 sensor where I missed a spot.
  • Carve out a hole in the firewall to route the ECM connections into the cab where I'm going to mount the computer.
  • Drive it around (alot) and put some miles on it and tweak the code to get it running good.
I'll have it all done and running by the Jambo, and might need to tune some while I'm there. Looks like I'll tote the laptop and inverter everywhere the truck goes for a while. My main goal it to get it running good enough to wheel for now. I can perfect the code later.

I'll get pictures and more details later on some of the trickery I had to accomplish. (like cost, and how much I could do it again for)

:D
 
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