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Discussion Starter #25
Thanks!

All in all, the hardest part of this swap has been getting the throttle body on the intake. 22R adapters are available from Affordable Fuel Injection for $115, but none for the 20R. I thought about buying one, and using the LCE 22R/20R carb adapter I already had, but the chunk of aluminum was only $24 from an internet metal supplier, and that was enough to make 2 adapters (the first one I screwed up, and the second one that was right.)
 

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Nice! I would have gotten lost in the details, I'm impressed with your will to keep going with this mod.
 

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Wow !! :clap: also VERY impressed... I would have been lost on the first day.... congrats !!!
 

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You guys should have seen the massive amount of wires :eek: I almost shit myself when I saw it. Josh has the patience of a thousand men.
 

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Hurry up and figure out how much its gonna cost me to have a harness put together for my 20r extra cab.

Seriously though if the price is right and its a simple enough setup this may be my mod of choice for the extra cab, vs. the dual fuel propane setup I have been contemplating.
 

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Hurry up and figure out how much its gonna cost me to have a harness put together for my 20r extra cab.

Seriously though if the price is right and its a simple enough setup this may be my mod of choice for the extra cab, vs. the dual fuel propane setup I have been contemplating.
I'd go injection over duel fuel any day. Remember, when you set up a duel fuel system the motor has to be tuned to run on the lower octane fuel (gas) and you will not get all the power out of the propane. This is why propane systems got a bad rap back in the day and were said to have no power....
Gas octane = 87ish, propane octane = 110ish...
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Well, I got all the todo list items done.

Started playing with the tuning. Started with the stock chip that came with this computer (5.7L, Manual Tranny), and detuned it to try and get it running better.

It idled like a champ, but as soon as I hit the road, it was a fight to get it back in the garage. It backfired through the intake many times. :eek: There was one moment when it pulled hard in 2nd gear, but that was short lived.

So, today at work I had the bright idea to start with a 4.3 Manual Tranny chip, and detune that. I made my tweaks, thought about it all day, and got home and tried it out.

O. M. G. It idles even better now, and the throttle response seems tons better sitting still. I backed up into the street, and took off. I knew immediately that this was a better starting point to tune with.

I put about 15 miles on it, and it ran as good and maybe a touch better than both carbs I ever had on this motor. And I've still got some fine tuning to do. :D

Those that are coming to the Jambo can check it out in person.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Update!

I tried to do more tuning, but was getting frustrated. What the truck was doing was randomly dying when idling, and hard starting. Nothing changed from Gilmer till now.

I played with the code a bit, and tried testing all my sensors. I even asked around on a another forum and was asked about my fuel pump. I realized that mine was probably not putting out enough PSI or GPH since it was working with a carb at one point. :eek:

So, I searched around for the best pump, found it, put it on, and had to retune from scratch because the new pump threw everything out of wack. Fuel pressure is very important in a TBI setup, and apparently I was trying to tune around my problems.

Now with that out of the way, I couldn't get the 4.3 code to run right, so I started over with the 5.7 code, and detuned that. Things are much better now! It idle perfect again (no dying) and actually crawls good whereas in Gilmer it would stall.

I've got more tuning to do to get it perfect. All in due time. :) Full writeup coming soon- including prices and pictures. You won't be disappointed.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Project 20RE - Junkyard injection with TBI

What: inject a Toyota 20R 4 cylinder motor with GM Throttle Body Injection (TBI) as cheaply as possible
Why: 22RE's don't grow on trees around here, and usually need a rebuild before dropping in the engine bay. Plus I like to try new things, and I have a good running motor that I don't want to throw away.

Ever since I started wheeling my Toyota, I've realized that carbs suck off road. Granted, the factory Aisin carbs are better than most, I still had issues. The Land Cruiser crowd has been adapting the GM TBI system to the F and 2F motors for years, so I knew it was possible to convert this system to run just about anything.

To begin this project, I started searching around for companies that sold kits or parts, and found a few, but the prices were out of my budget ($1000 or more sometimes). I figured I could do better. I then started researching the TBI system in general, and found that it has a strong following in many denominations of the automobile world. One such group is the IH crowd, or "binders" as they refer to themselves as. This lead me to Binder Planet, and all the wonderful tech that is contained in the "Injection Tech" section of their forum. A man by the name of Bill Hamilton has his act together! By soaking up all the info there, I was prepared to begin collecting parts for my project.

So, here's the breakdown of my system, and the source/price of each component (* items came from junkyard):
  • TBI unit from a 4.3l Chevy V6* - $25
  • 7747 ECM (computer) from a 5.7l Chevy C1500* - $25
  • Wiring harness from a 5.7l Chevy C1500* - $25
  • Ignition coil from 5.7l Chevy C1500* - $8.99
  • 22RE Distributor* - $20
  • Dodge Durango air cleaner housing and duct* - $10.99
  • FJ80 throttle cable* - $10.99
  • MAP,ESC,Ignition Module* - Free thanks to cargo pants. :D
  • 3/4" x 6" x 12" aluminum plate (for adapter) - $17
  • O2 Sensor - Bosch 13077 - $44.99
  • Non-fouler 42002 - to make O2 bung with - $4.29
  • Spectre 3" cone air filter - $20
  • 3" exhaust pipe coupler - to attach air filter to duct - $2.99
  • Fuel pump - Airtex E8094 - $112.99
  • Moates AutoProm APU1 burner/emulator/ALDL logger - $330
  • Moates G2 memory adapter - $30
  • Moates S2 28-pin ZIF socket - $10
  • Various nuts/bolts/connectors/etc - $20
So far my total is $718.23. So far I'm less than a standard propane conversion, and less than a 22RE core and rebuild. :D

The big hit in the project was the AutoProm programmer at $330. Take that out of my costs (plus the ZIF socket), and it's only $378.23. :eek: I feel that since nobody had a BIN file for my ECM to run a 20R, the programmer was a good investment.

I'm still tuning the system, but so far, I feel it was money well spent. Off road performance is awesome, and the engine really like the TBI.
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
Here's the overall shot of the system. You can see the "Cold Air Intake" system I came up with. A regular round 14" aircleaner would have worked too, but I was afraid of hood clearance issues.
The parts came from a Dodge Durango. I had to dremel out some of the internal parts to get it to clear the injectors.


Wiring harness. Yes, I used black tape to wrap it, and I wish I hadn't. I didn't cut or splice any of the factory GM harness. That's why it seems long in places, and doubled over.


Where harness goes through firewall to ECM. 2" hole saw works nicely. Grommet is a Toyota firewall grommet from the junkyard.


Fuel pump relay and main system relay. I reused the FP relay that came with the harness, and found a off road light relay for the system relay. The red wire with the spade connectors leads back to the fuse box and ties into the ENGINE fuse.


4.3l Throttle body, Coolant temp sensor, and homemade adapter plate. I need to clean the TB a bit, but internally it's clean, so I didn't worry about it. The CTS screwed right into the Toyota intake. The adapter plate is made from 3/4" thick aluminum. I matched up the gaskets for both the 20R carb and the TBI unit and traced out the holes. Then I used a 1 3/4 hole saw to make the center bores, a wood blade on a sawzall to rough out the inner taper (since the TBI bores are bigger than the intake bores) and smoothed it all out with a die grinder.


ESC, Ignition Module. I decided to keep the knock sensor (mounted on the block in the water drain under the header), so I needed the ESC module. Also, the GM ignition module needed a heat sink, hence the small aluminum plate behind it. The 22RE distributor connects to the ignition module in a specfic way: distributor red wire -> P terminal on module. distributor white wire -> N terminal on module. If you get them backwards, you won't get a proper signal to the ECM and it will run like poop.


GM coil, in stock mounting holes. Stock bracket lined up with the existing holes in the fender.


22RE distributor, no vacuum advance. You could modify a 20R or 22R distributor to remove the vacuum advance parts, but I figured this was easier.


Throttle cable connection. I found a very long FJ80 throttle cable in the junk yard that allowed me to put the mounting anywhere I wanted. I ended up having to cut a large part of the TBI linkage off to fit the intake near the Toyota EGR port. I rewelded some of the cut parts back to the top of the linkage so the cable could be used in a stock fashion.


O2 sensor. I'm using a 3 wire heated Bosch 13077 sensor. The bung is a 18mm spark plug non-fouler cut in half and welded in place.


Fuel pump. Airtex E8094. Puts out 17-20 PSI and 50 GPH. Perfect for TBI setups. It's a pricey one though.


ECM, ALDL, check engine light. THere isn't any space under the dash of the first gen trucks, and I wasn't going to gut anything to make space, so I mounted the computer on the kick panel. You can see the chip and ZIF socket sticking out there. I plan on removing the ZIF and the cover will fit again. Also, I mounted my ALDL connector close to the ECM, and the check engine light is a Radio Shack LED mounted on the ALDL connector. By doing this I kept all the wiring in one area.


AutoProm from Moates.net. This lets me burn chips, log data from the ALDL connector, and also it can emulate chips on the fly from the laptop, so I don't have to "burn chips, reset ecm, test drive, repeat". Just make the changes and start the motor.


There isn't an off the shelf ECM that will run the 20R good, so I started with a 7747 ARHT bin, and changed the # of cylinders to 4 and the BPW to 138. This got it in the ballpark, but it's still running a tad rich. Using programs like WinALDL and TunerPro, I can log data and change the code to dial it in.

And finally, here's some links I found useful during my conversion...
2F TBI Conversion
Another 2F TBI Conversion
TBI FAQ on Binder Planet
IH8Mud user adding TBI to a carbed 350
Moates AutoProm
Great PROM/BIN programming info at ThirdGen.org
Lots of great tech on the 1227747 ECM
How to install the 24-pin to 28-pin adapter in the ECM
Great info on tuning the ECM at FullSizeChevy.com
 

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Old thread I know but wow.....good read. Far beyond my capabilities but not my comprehension; very good job & kudos to you for sticking with it. It makes me a little more adventurous when I read stuff like this because it reassures me if something like this can be done then the little crap I need to do is no big deal.




:boobies: <--- I like that.




Even though you're obviously smarter than me it's still reassuring lol
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Thanks for the compliments.

As an update...

I switched to a 2.8l throttle body, but kept the 4.3l injectors since my ECM was setup for them. The smaller throttle body made a big difference. The 4.3 one was really too big.

Nearly a year after I started running this system, I finally figured out why my O2 sensor wouldn't work. Three new sensors later, I found that I didn't connect a ground wire for the O2 on the ECM side of the harness. :doh:

Since the O2 sensor is working now, I can finally tune my fuel tables. The system is working pretty good until the computer learns the motor again. One issue I keep having is the ECM keeps leaning out the fuel, causing power loss in the upper RPM range. I'm still hunting this one, and hopefully I'll find the cause.

And, I've helped one person get their 22R converted, and now I'm helping a guy out West over email to get his 20R running. He had bought the AFI kit, but never could get it running right even with their help.
 
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