TTORA Forum banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK. I thought I would post this here. I couldn't really find too much when searching. When a spacer lift is installed, what is the limiting factor of down travel? The shock it self, cv axle, or the UCA? The reason I ask is I have a 2.5" spacer installed on top of my coil spring, which in turn shortened the length the coil spring can operate in, hence giving me a harsh ride. I also have Rancho 5000 up front. Now, you would think that a spacer installed say ontop of the coilover would retain the factory ride and add lift. Downside is you lose down travel and top out over speed bumps or other bumps.

So, do you still have the topping out problem when a spacer lift is installed on top of the coilover or an after market coilover is used? (I assume yes.) And can this be corrected by using after market UCA's? If yes, then I would assume the limiting factor of down travel of the suspension would be the CV axle and excess stress would be put on them under extreme situations.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
get rid of the spacers all together and get some c/o's. spacers on top of c/o=bad idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,933 Posts
yeah top load spacers are not too great. you would have been better off with a regular lift spacer. i agree replacment co's would be your best choice. as far as the limits of downtravel, its probably mostly in the ball joints.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yeah top load spacers are not too great. you would have been better off with a regular lift spacer. i agree replacment co's would be your best choice. as far as the limits of downtravel, its probably mostly in the ball joints.
So if the limiting factor in suspension travel on a Tacoma with stock upper and lower control arms is the ball joint, then using either a spacer or a coilover wouldn't change to amount of down travel. I have a spacer lift like I said and I want to eliminate the annoying topping out effect. It seems like when driving over speed bumps and such that the suspension is pushed down by the stiffened spings and the tops out and pulls the truck down.

Is this eliminated or reduced with coilovers like SAWS, Donahoes, or Kings? I can't see how aftermarket coilovers would change anything since the suspension has its max and min travel. Just my $.02.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,213 Posts
What limits the downtravel is the shock itself.

If you are using your ball joints or cv's as your bumpstop for downtravel, you are asking for A LOT of trouble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,364 Posts
What limits the downtravel is the shock itself.

If you are using your ball joints or cv's as your bumpstop for downtravel, you are asking for A LOT of trouble.
X2. Shock does limit down travel, but other issues come into play also. Balljoint binding, CV angularity issues and component interference problems, such as UCA/coilspring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
597 Posts
Camburg Uni-Ball Upper A-Arms
These arms will give you smother travel and greater strength. These arms use 1" uni-balls and 17-4 stainless steel spacers. Energy Suspension urethane bushings are used to replace the stock rubber bushings that bind the upper arms and add stress to the upper A-Arm mounts. We incorporate a 7/8" internal pivot sleeve for the urethane to pivot on. A new feature is grease fittings for the urethane bushings. These arms add strength and wheel travel for high off-road demands.
$499.00 Parts
$649.00 Installed
*PRICE WILL BE $549.00 May 1st 2007
thats from the camburg website

and i think you get about an 1" of extra travel with these i think i read that through my research somewhere, i still have my stock uca and i know taht is what limits my downtravel for now, the shock can still extend a little past the point to were the stock uca binds, and with a spacer or coilover lift(except for long travel lifts) all you are doin with these kits is setting the preload, meaning you are takin away from your downtravel, if you have say 7" of down travel and you put a 2.5" spacer in there you now have 4.5" of downtravel, still the same amount of up travel though hope that helps good luck man and if you are thinkin about gettin the camburgs the prices on the camburgs jumps up after this weekend:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,090 Posts
Here is an interesting question:

I just got some SAW 2.0s and will be putting them on soon. At the moment I have my stock coils with an above the coil spacer for 2" of lift. While talking to my roommate lastnight this theory came about.

I am aware that adding a spacer to the top of an adjustable coilover is a bad idea, but isnt this only when trying to add more lift then you have already adjusted? I know that anything over about 2.5" will start to cause some issues. The problem with adjusting the coilovers is that as mentioned above you are adding preload and thus limiting your downtravel. I know this will sound dumb/interesting but would it be better to put the 2" spacer on top of the SAWs set at stock height. This would mean that it would be the softest ride, you would not be reducing your down travel, and you would be at 2" over stock which is what I would be adjusting them too.

Is there any credibility to this option? I know that the point to an adjustable coilover is that you can adjust it but I thought I would throw this out there after seeing some element of truth in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,544 Posts
There are two types of spacers, as you mentioned. 1) goes in with the coil, a coil spring spacer. Large spacers (over 1" lift) start to affect the ride, and compressability. You can still compress to the bumpstops it just takes more weight. 2) Top plate spacers, these lower the entire coil assembly for lift. They do not affect the ride, and actually increase travel. The strut/shock is what limits travel, so by lowering it you increase travel by the amout of the top plate lift, to the point the BJ's, or CV's limit it. You dont want either of those to limit your droop as that will cause premature wear and failure.

Personally I have no problems with a spacer lift, I actually have one on both my newer toys. My 4runner has a 1" spring spacer lift to level it out. The ride wasnt changed, but it looks SOOO much better. On my taco I have 1.75" lift. I went with the cornfed 2" kit and had Dave machine the spacer down. His 2" lift is 2 pieces, a 1" spring spacer and a 1" top plate. He machined the 1" top plate down to .75" lift for me. I like this setup as my overall travel is increased by .75", my perceived downtravel is only 1" less than before, and my ride was unaffected. My CV's are at a great angle, the boot does not contact itself under normal driving. Before I had the airbags the rear would squat and raise the front about .5" and the CV boots would rub, now with the airbags that doesnt happen.

For what I use my truck for there is no reason to go CO's. They are designed for hi-speed racing/jumping. For trail riding the OEM coils are great, even the stiffer TRD OR ones. I love the ride. CO's have their place, but IMO not on a trail rig. I also could have gone with ARB coils, but they generally produce more lift that I am interested in having. I didnt want to have to lift the rear, and I didnt. The 1.75" brought me level, and the airbags keep me there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,090 Posts
But what of adding a above the coil spacer to adjustable coilovers? I feel the purpose of adjustable coilovers is defeated but possibly because of the difference in spring rate from stock coils there would be a softer ride.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
597 Posts
you cant create travel unless you go with long travel kit or sas, if you put in a spacer it doesnt matter were you put it, it is still goin to lower the amount of down travel you have, you cant change that, unless by goin with long travel, the shocks do limit down travel but you cvs uca will more than likely bind up before that happens if you have an after market coilover, if the shock were the limiting factor you could just simply buy a longer shock and "create" travel this is not the case, unless goin with long travel, with spacer, adjustable coils etc these types of lifts only set preload limiting down travel, you are still within the confinds of the stock travel, unless you go with an after market uca which is good for about an 1" or so of added travel. when you install a spacer or adjustable coil you are pushing the suspension downward, thus creating downtravel to be held an 1" or 2" or whatever you have it set at less than what it was previously, you still have the same amount of uptravel, which is why with these types of "lifts" you still have to do pinchweld mods and such, cause your tire will hit if it doesnt fit on the truck stock hopefully that helped someone

dented tacoma, what you are proposing wont work, think of the threads on the coilover for adjustment as a spacer, you have a good range and waht you can set it at, simply adding a spacer to the top of the adjustable coil will make the ride the same as if it were adjusted to the same length as if the spacer was on there, basically there is no way around losing downtravel short of long travel suspension or sas:D hopefully i didnt confuse anyone
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,090 Posts
That definitely helped. I still have to run a few more thoughts through my head though to clear it up totally. Plus it is a sure thing that there will be another discussion with the roommate tonight.

EDIT: I guess the question now to you backwoods boy is this: Would the ride be 'better' with the CO at 0" lift and then the 2" top spacer or with the CO adjusted to 2" of lift and no top spacer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,544 Posts
you cant create travel unless you go with long travel kit or sas, if you put in a spacer it doesnt matter were you put it, it is still goin to lower the amount of down travel you have, you cant change that, unless by goin with long travel, the shocks do limit down travel but you cvs uca will more than likely bind up before that happens if you have an after market coilover, if the shock were the limiting factor you could just simply buy a longer shock and "create" travel this is not the case, unless goin with long travel, with spacer, adjustable coils etc these types of lifts only set preload limiting down travel, you are still within the confinds of the stock travel, unless you go with an after market uca which is good for about an 1" or so of added travel. when you install a spacer or adjustable coil you are pushing the suspension downward, thus creating downtravel to be held an 1" or 2" or whatever you have it set at less than what it was previously, you still have the same amount of uptravel, which is why with these types of "lifts" you still have to do pinchweld mods and such, cause your tire will hit if it doesnt fit on the truck stock hopefully that helped someone
I see what you are trying to say, but a top plate spacer does not have the affect you say it will. A top plate adds over all travel to your setup by lowering the entire shock assembly. So the 1" top plate lift actually adds 1" over all travel, keeping the same perceived down travel, and adding 1" to the up travel. So you do not loose the perveived with a top plate, you do however loose the perceived with a spring spacer.

So a top plate (only option on a CO) would not affect your perceived down travel... you will probably have a better ride at 0" on the CO and 2" spacer, thou your CV's and BJ's will take a bigger hit... I would go with 1" top plate at most, and the rest on the CO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,090 Posts
So the 1" top plate lift actually adds 1" over all travel, keeping the same perceived down travel, and adding 1" to the up travel. So you do not loose the perveived with a top plate, you do however loose the perceived with a spring spacer.
I would not think that you would be adding 1" of up travel when you have a top spacer. When putting on the top spacer you will push the assembly down but the extended length and compressed length of your shock will remain the same. So you will have the same amount of travel (barring limitations by other componenets) but it is moved down 1"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
597 Posts
That definitely helped. I still have to run a few more thoughts through my head though to clear it up totally. Plus it is a sure thing that there will be another discussion with the roommate tonight.

EDIT: I guess the question now to you backwoods boy is this: Would the ride be 'better' with the CO at 0" lift and then the 2" top spacer or with the CO adjusted to 2" of lift and no top spacer?
i would think they would be about the same, because when you adjust the coil that is what you are essentially doin is putin space between the spring and the top of the perch were it is mounted to the truck, the spacer does the same thing you just wouldnt have to adjust the coil if you added a spacer, which i dont think is recomended BTW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
597 Posts
I see what you are trying to say, but a top plate spacer does not have the affect you say it will. A top plate adds over all travel to your setup by lowering the entire shock assembly. So the 1" top plate lift actually adds 1" over all travel, keeping the same perceived down travel, and adding 1" to the up travel. So you do not loose the perveived with a top plate, you do however loose the perceived with a spring spacer.

So a top plate (only option on a CO) would not affect your perceived down travel... you will probably have a better ride at 0" on the CO and 2" spacer, thou your CV's and BJ's will take a bigger hit... I would go with 1" top plate at most, and the rest on the CO.
no sir the top plate goes over the whole assembly, this lowers the coild assembly only, pushing the lower a arm down, thus simulating downtravel, soo it essentially works almost the same as a spacer built into the coil pack just doin have to use a spring compressor to install it, you are still gettin the same overall resullts just in a different way you cant create travel by only messing with the coilover, because the limiting factors on the stock suspension set up is the ucas upper and lower, the ucas, will move the exact same as the did before just will be an inch into downtravel so to speak if that makes sense
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,544 Posts
no sir the top plate goes over the whole assembly, this lowers the coild assembly only, pushing the lower a arm down, thus simulating downtravel, soo it essentially works almost the same as a spacer built into the coil pack just doin have to use a spring compressor to install it, you are still gettin the same overall resullts just in a different way you cant create travel by only messing with the coilover, because the limiting factors on the stock suspension set up is the ucas upper and lower, the ucas, will move the exact same as the did before just will be an inch into downtravel so to speak if that makes sense
Maybe on the 95-04 but on the 05+ the limiting factor is not the UCA or LCA, its the shock, so if the shock starts lower it will stop lower. Make sence? I measuerd a .75" increase in travel on my truck.

Even with 1.75" of lift my coils do not contact the UCA. I also have more travel than what the coil is still allowing. I played with the suspension with the coil out, the LCA goes lower than where it stops now, as does the UCA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,544 Posts
i would think they would be about the same, because when you adjust the coil that is what you are essentially doin is putin space between the spring and the top of the perch were it is mounted to the truck, the spacer does the same thing you just wouldnt have to adjust the coil if you added a spacer, which i dont think is recomended BTW
Except a top plate spacer has zero affect on spring rate. The coil is still free to move with its intended arc. The only time it would be differnet is the last inch (or however much the spacer provides) as the CO is compressing more than intended to reach the bumpstops. But for normal everyday use the effect on the spring rate is not as great with the spacer as without.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
597 Posts
putting any kind of spacer on the coilpack somehow will only push the lower uca down, in turn lower the spindle, upper uca and the tire down, creating what looks like a "lift". this happens because the coilpack is bolted to the frame at the top and to the uca at the bottom, so if you extend the length no matter by how much you are just goin to push both uca's down with the spindle and the tire. the uca's will only move a certain amount when attached to the spindel this creates your travel limitations, just by pushing them down with a spacer or adjusting the coils will not add travel, only decrease it, it is the nature of the beast, i have coilovers for trail riding i need the extra spring rate to hold up the armor, i dont do high speed stuff often, no baja racing, coilovers are great for trails, they dont fade as quick and are rebuildable, will anyof these ride better on road, not really bout the same maybe a little better, my saws are about the same, but offroad they are 10 times better than any spacer IMO, im not tryin to put anyone down i am just stating fact, coilovers, spacers, etc, dont "lift" the vehicle they just work within the confinds of your travel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
597 Posts
Maybe on the 95-04 but on the 05+ the limiting factor is not the UCA or LCA, its the shock, so if the shock starts lower it will stop lower. Make sence? I measuerd a .75" increase in travel on my truck.

Even with 1.75" of lift my coils do not contact the UCA. I also have more travel than what the coil is still allowing. I played with the suspension with the coil out, the LCA goes lower than where it stops now, as does the UCA.
gotcha i dont have an 05+ so i couldnt tell on those :D but dented tacoma has a 98
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top