Revised Rubicon Master Plan

3477 Views 49 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Dick Foster, Mar 18, 2005

Mike

Discussion Starter · Mar 15, 2005

For those of you who have been following the evolution of the Rubicon Master Plan.

http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/Rubicon/MasterPlanDraftMarch2005.html

There's still some possibly negative stuff in there, check out element 8 talking about fees, reservations, trail use limits, and directional traffic controls.

Talk about an enforcement nightmare!

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 15, 2005

Ted said:
Do you think the 600 vechical limit at anytime is a high or low number? Im totaly oposed to charging fees to acess public land. That is why we pay taxes. Plus, the majoriy of collected fees on federal land go to the general fund.

Well, I think the numbers are flawed. I think 600 rigs on the trail at any one time is pretty extreme, but it's hard to tell. You can get into the trail from four different trailheads, and people come and go all hours of the day and night. It would take some really detailed monitoring to find out what the real world numbers are.

I am also opposed to any sort of fees. I say make the permits similar to the campfire permits, free, but your signature is on them certifying that you have read and understand what is expected of you.

I do not care for any sort of camping restrictions either. Once you start forcing people into established campgrounds, well, you might as well just spend the weekend at the fawking KOA. People head up to the Rubicon to challenge their rigs and enjoy the remote wilderness camping.

Unfortunately, the Rubicon has become too popular.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 15, 2005

Dick Foster said:
It absolute best fix for this is to open up more trails in order to reduce the impact generated by forcing even more people into ever diminishing areas. Has any of our brilliant government types even brought up that remedy or would that make too much sense? The end goal to all of this type of nonsense it to create a slave state with us being the slaves. Yes, it is a small part but it still indicates the general direction things are headed just the same. i.e. You will recreate when and where we tell you to recreate and take your work product in the process because we the government have determined that it is a privilege, is at our discretion and is and not your right.

That makes too much sense. Hell, I would volunteer every weekend to help build new trails in the Sierra. Unfortunately there are so many barriers to creating new trails that it's next to impossible.

There are a lot of trails around, just that most people don't know about them or how to get to them. Everyone has heard of the Rubicon, thus it's overcrowded condition.

I believe the current plan in the works is to restore the little sluice to resemble the difficulty of the rest of the trail. This will most likely remove the reason most of the asshats end up at Spider Lake trashing things up.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 15, 2005

BigBadBob0 said:
I hate to be a pessimist, but I wonder where they'll go next? It'll be somewhere remote where they can have an open beer in every cup holder. We just need to start inflicting pain.

Well, not sure where they will end up, but I think it will be good for the trail. The little sluice is easy to get to from Loon Lake, and people go there for the show. If you take away the show, or have to wheel farther in to mess around, less people will make the effort. The show at the little sluice attracts lots of non-wheelers who could care less about trashing up the place. Unfortunately, Spider Lake ends up the victim because of it's close proximity to the sluice.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 15, 2005

cb77DEMELLO said:
Has it become to popular or have they closed down so many other trails we are all being pushed into smaller area's?

It's getting too popular. Rigs are getting more extreme, and there are more people getting into four-wheeling.

When I first ran the trail in the mid 90's, if you saw someone on 35" tires they were pretty hardcore!

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 15, 2005

cb77DEMELLO said:
Yeh your right it is! I don't want to be heard saying this out loud but if it keeps the trail clean and open, I'm not against a park fee or something like that, that will keep it open?>

No fees, ever. It's public land, and I pay taxes.

I also pick up trash. And I've picked up shit. Yes, other people's turds. I think I've earned my right to use my public land, any time I want, as long as I keep up my end of the bargain to use it in a responsible manner.

I don't want to pay fees so the government can hire more people to tell me where I can't go.

Like I said in another post, I am not opposed to permits, as long as they are free. They might be a good way to educate people, kinda like campfire permits. There should also be an unlimited number of permits issued.

None of this stuff is negotiable as far as I'm concerned.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #19 · Mar 16, 2005

Ursidae69 said:
You know, in principle, I agree with your stance on fees. But, with the vast funding shortage the land agencies are dealing with, fees seem to be the only way to generate money. The BRC has a decent policy on fees that I agree with.

BLUERIBBON COALITION
OFFICIAL ORGANIZATIONAL POLICIES AND POSITIONS

If 100% of the fees were applied towards keeping trails open, or opening new areas, I might agree with it.

Who's to say they won't use the money to set up more wilderness study areas, or waste it on a 10 year long investigation of the endangered Sierra Nevada Piss Ant, only to find out that it's not really endangered?

I pay taxes because I am legally required to, not because I agree with the amount, or what it is being spent on.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #37 · Mar 18, 2005

Chi Taco Bill said:
ny hours have you (all) contributed to trail work? Railing against politicians, lawyers, environmentalists and any one else who is perceived as preventing you from doing what you want will not solve anything. Try contacting the regional BLM administrator to set up a trail maintenance program. Doing something will yield results. Pissing and moaning only raises your blood pressure.

Chi Taco Bill

BigBadBob, myself and some other TTORA folks preparing to pick up turds at Spider Lake.

Cleaning up inconsiderate camper's human waste so that we can continue to use the trail in the future.

We picked up a couple trailer loads of poop that day.

Now tell me that we aren't out on the trail trying to make a difference.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #39 · Mar 18, 2005

Ursidae69 said:
I could be wrong, but I think he meant it would be good to organize trail clean ups with the BLM managers' blessing to foster good will. We all pick up trash, I know I do. Might be good to get credit for it.

All work done on the Rubicon under FOTR is organized with the various agencies and land owners involved. The western section of the trail is in El Dorado County. The eastern section is in Placer County. Sections of the trail cross private property. The trail is an El Dorado County road. The road travels through the El Dorado National Forest.

As you can see, it is a jurisdiction nightmare.

We help out where we can, mainly through volunteering for FOTR projects, random picking up of trash (which we do on every trail), and severe peer pressure when we run across idiots doing resource damage or anything else that may affect our future access to the trails we love.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #40 · Mar 18, 2005

Chi Taco Bill said:
ny hours have you (all) contributed to trail work? Railing against politicians, lawyers, environmentalists and any one else who is perceived as preventing you from doing what you want will not solve anything. Try contacting the regional BLM administrator to set up a trail maintenance program. Doing something will yield results. Pissing and moaning only raises your blood pressure.

Chi Taco Bill

We don't just pick up other people's turds and beer cans. Here's a few pics from last summer where I took a day off from work to volunteer as a driver for a law enforcement tour of the Rubicon trail....

Now the judges and prosecutors who deal with citations understand what 'resource damage' means. When they have some jackass in front of them who has been charged with tearing up a meadow or cutting down live trees or blazing new trails through the bushes they will know what they are dealing with.

Later,
....Mike

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #42 · Mar 18, 2005

Chi Taco Bill said:
ny hours have you (all) contributed to trail work? Railing against politicians, lawyers, environmentalists and any one else who is perceived as preventing you from doing what you want will not solve anything. Try contacting the regional BLM administrator to set up a trail maintenance program. Doing something will yield results. Pissing and moaning only raises your blood pressure.

Chi Taco Bill

I do some political stuff too though. I send nasty emails and faxes to the criminals that somehow got elected to represent me. I also try to attend events when possible. A couple years ago we got a bunch of wheelers together and clusterfucked traffic around the state capitol for awhile to protest Boxer's wilderness crap legislation.

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Mike

Discussion Starter · #45 · Mar 18, 2005

cb77DEMELLO said:
What about the people that ruin it for the rest of us?

Well, for the people who just don't know any better, educate them. Last summer on the Deer Valley trail a young kid in a jeep started ripping up a river bank and meadow area that was clearly posted with 'stay on the trail' signs. He did this in front of a pretty big group, and was promptly ripped a new asshole by several people. He'll probably never do that again.

For the people who know they are tearing things up, and don't care, take pictures and report them to law enforcement. Or shoot them in the head and bury them on the side of the trail. Either way works for me.

Later,
....Mike

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