Revised Rubicon Master Plan

Dick Foster said:

Bullshit!!! They are short on funds because they waste a lot of it and because of their self generated bureaucratic nonsense. Anyone that has ever worked in government will tell you that their goal every year is to get an even larger budget and then spend that away so they can get even more the next year.
We need less government not more. Government is useless overhead for the most part. Typically, everything they touch turns to pure shit. When are people in this country going to wake up and realize that government is not the answer to all problems but typically are responsible for creating problems where none existed before? Let's all try to get this country back to what the founding fathers had in mind and get our laws back to serving their original intended purpose. Open your eyes, engage your brain and look around you. Now try to get a clue.

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Less government is a good policy in some instances, but government still has a job to do. Protecting our borders and protecting our rights are the two big ones that government must do. Lots of stuff falls into protecting our rights, whether it's OSHA standards, EPA standards, minmimum wage standards, public education, etc., etc., etc., and one of the rights they are protecting is the natural resources on our public lands. It's as much my land as it is yours and we may differ to some degree on how to manage it, so we need to government to come in and do it, and do it fairly. Sorry if that is bullshit to you, but that's the way it is. I'm sure you've heard of the term, Tragedy of the Commons?? That is what we have now because the government stewards don't have the money to manage our land and people abuse it. I live 5 miles from some BLM land and it is riddled with illegal dump sites even though a county landfill is right near there. How does your calling bullshit fix that??? How does you calling bullshit fix anything???

How agencies handle their money is a whole other debate, not relevant to this. And I would agree, better use of the funds is in order. I work for the Feds, I see waste daily. You can't fix it though until you vote in politicians that are not crooked. Sadly, both sides of the isle are pretty damn crooked.

Just 2.5 cents.

Chuck...

Well let's just see if they can concentrate on doing job 1 first. That is to provide for the common defense. Once they do an adequate job at that and not get so muddled up with all the PC bullshit so much that all they do wind up doing is searching nuns at our airports, maybe they can try their hand at something else. Till then, we need to get them focused on the basics because they are doing a lousy job at everything they do now. I for one do not think they are protecting our natural resources fairly because they are so wrapped up in political pandering that they can't. It is abundantly clear that they will never do the job fairly the way things are today. The first step in solving a problem is recognizing that a problem exists in the first place. The evidence that there are problems is abundant and easily discerned. All that will result from your direction is more problems, less freedom, more taxes etc. etc. In case you haven't heard the news, the great socialist experiment was a miserable failure.

Dick Foster said:

Well let's just see if they can concentrate on doing job 1 first. That is to provide for the common defense.

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I think the Bush admin has that covered, don't you?

Once they do an adequate job at that and not get so muddled up with all the PC bullshit so much that all they do wind up doing is searching nuns at our airports, maybe they can try their hand at something else.

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So everything else I listed before beyond defense is PC bullshit?

Till then, we need to get them focused on the basics because they are doing a lousy job at everything they do now. I for one do not think they are protecting our natural resources fairly because they are so wrapped up in political pandering that they can't.

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Not fair?? No, I actually agree with you, it is not fair at all. The only way land agencies have to protect anything these days is to close it, which stops many of the bad elements (illegal dumping, etc.), but also unfortunately affects those who recreate responsibly, like most OHV users, note I said most. The only way to fix that is FUND them more, not cut funding. Cutting funding means they cannot do the job they are mandated by LAW to do, which is manage the land, and their only recourse is to close it. The Envirogroups got it figured out pretty well, I bet they actually want funding to get cut more, it just means their lawsuits are that much more effective. I wish more people GOT that!

It is abundantly clear that they will never do the job fairly the way things are today. The first step in solving a problem is recognizing that a problem exists in the first place. The evidence that there are problems is abundant and easily discerned.

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Can't argue with that, there are problems. They either need fixed (the hard part) or just ignore them and cut the funding more (the easy part)

All that will result from your direction is more problems, less freedom, more taxes etc. etc. In case you haven't heard the news, the great socialist experiment was a miserable failure.

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This is where I call bullshit. My direction is to fund land agencies better, that will result is better application of the NEPA policy and more parties with vested interest get a say in how the land is used. Having the government manage government land is not socialist, sorry. Maybe you'd rather the government sold it all? Go look up in other threads and this one about wheeling on private land and see how hard that is?

I'm glad to see you and others actually care and are charged up, hope you use that energy wisely.

Well if you want to fund them so damn badly, send them your money. There is nothing in the law that prevents you from contributing to them. It's when you want me to fund them that get my gall. Until that happens, I call bullshit, money talks, bullshit walks. If everyone backed up their mouth with their own money, we would have a lot fewer problems. In fact, I am all for a dead flat rate straight percentage income tax where everyone pays the same percentage of their income and that is the only tax and sole source of government funding. But only when the taxpayer directs the spending for the tax collected from them directly without any intervention from politicians or bureaucrats. Then we would really see where the bear shits in the buckwheat. Maybe then I would earmark some money for them.
It's pretty close to tax time for you to be advocating even more money for government. There are just too many bleeding asses out there right now so you're in dangerous territory. LOL

We pay for this with the taxes we pay already. My taxes are out of control, like everyone's. I'd be all for a flat tax or something like that, but it takes power away from the politicians and they won't let it happen. A flat tax would insure that corporate America would pay their fair share for a change, but their special interest dollars on The Hill keep it from becoming a reality. Some 30-40% of my freakin income every year goes to taxes in some form or another, I don't think corporate conglomerates pay half that. In middle America, the more you make, the more you get screwed. I'm better off not working. I had to start a business last year, even though it loses money, just to break even on taxes.

The government has the money, if they'd quit spending so much so a bunch of Iraquis could vote, we'd have more to go round. But, I digress...

Like I said you want them to be funded more so go fund them already. Just do it with your own money and not mine.
Go back and read what I said about flat taxes. It would be personal income tax only; I would not tax business because that is just a tax smoke screen for taxing the population more. Do you really think corporations just take the tax out of their profits and don't pass it along in the prices you pay for everything? Just exactly who owns the corporations, the greedy mean old CEOs and the rest of the meanies in the board room or stock holders who are for the most part us? What color is the sky in your world anyway? As I suggested to you before, open your eyes, engage your brain, take a look around you and get a clue or two.
You are absolutely right in one thing, the politicians will never let it happen. But that is just so long as you let them keep it that way becasue they are for the most part worthless as tits on a boar hog and could do nothing else. If everyone started using their own brains for a change instead of just regurgitating the bullshit that is shoved into their ears from the tube and the largely liberal academics (liberal is a misnomer in this context, irresponsible far left types is more like it), maybe then we could make some much needed changes. However, I do hate these types of folks slightly less than the defeatist who won’t even get off of their lazy asses to go vote or who do vote but vote for one of the “more of the same old shit” parties because thinking is just too damn hard for them to do.

Dick Foster said:

Bullshit!!! ...... Anyone that has ever worked in government will tell you that their goal every year is to get an even larger budget and then spend that away so they can get even more the next year....

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So VERY true, its referred to as "use it or loose it". Sometimes how the use it part gets done is trully amazing. Often times toward the end of the fiscal year, spending sprees happen to make SURE that there is no left over $$, cuz if they do spend it, that amount gets cut from next years budget. Like spending $17,000 to relocate a pet cat from the east to west coast as a "perk". More examples abound.

In the perfect world, having more resources (eg $$$) to tackle a problem sounds like agreat idea, but when the human factor gets thrown in, inevitably favors are done, fat is laid, and ultimately the cause suffers and the problem persists.

Politicians are just a nanogram better that lawyers in my books, and lawyers for the most part, blow (except for the ACLU guys- they all blow).

Sometimes I think that government service should be like jury duty- everyone has to put in a week stint every year or so at $15/day. That would get much of this shit streamlined- or it would fuck it up beyond belief

Chi Taco Bill said:

ny hours have you (all) contributed to trail work? Railing against politicians, lawyers, environmentalists and any one else who is perceived as preventing you from doing what you want will not solve anything. Try contacting the regional BLM administrator to set up a trail maintenance program. Doing something will yield results. Pissing and moaning only raises your blood pressure.

Chi Taco Bill

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BigBadBob, myself and some other TTORA folks preparing to pick up turds at Spider Lake.



Cleaning up inconsiderate camper's human waste so that we can continue to use the trail in the future.



We picked up a couple trailer loads of poop that day.



Now tell me that we aren't out on the trail trying to make a difference.

Later,
....Mike