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Negative arch kills leaf springs period the fact that yours are flat at ride height and you have no bump stops will only serve to kill them faster. Your second major problem is your shackle angle at full droop you don't really want it going much past 85* or so or you run the risk if the shackle inverting into the frame when the spring flattens back out you need to move your shackle mounts forward or run a shorter shackle to correct this the later being ill advised as it will begin to serverly limit your suspension travel.
You are wrong..........the OP is happy so therefore he's right.
 

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Ok dude I had a 4in NONFLAT spring and the sucker still inverted on my old truck and the shackle angle was within reason. Like I said jman If he happy with it and it carries more weight than yours just leave him the fuck alone man I dont get how some of you people think that everybodies truck need to be exactly like your or else its worthless. Everybody (money willing) can put a locker and a snorkle that will never be used and a couple bumpers on their rig. I just dont get why everybody has to have the same shit on their rig as you guys to be a GOOD truck I dont get it. After all this isnt pirate 4x4 where you got to swap out every stock part for some stupid shit to be cool or for people to know what they talking abt.
 

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Ok dude I had a 4in NONFLAT spring and the sucker still inverted on my old truck and the shackle angle was within reason. Like I said jman If he happy with it and it carries more weight than yours just leave him the fuck alone man I dont get how some of you people think that everybodies truck need to be exactly like your or else its worthless. Everybody (money willing) can put a locker and a snorkle that will never be used and a couple bumpers on their rig. I just dont get why everybody has to have the same shit on their rig as you guys to be a GOOD truck I dont get it. After all this isnt pirate 4x4 where you got to swap out every stock part for some stupid shit to be cool or for people to know what they talking abt.
Don't wanna sound like a dick or nothin', but it says on your chart that you're fucked up. You talk like a ***, and your shit's all retarded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Not to question the work of Deaver...too much. But has "Jeff" seen them on the truck? These guys here aren't trying to say they know more than the experts, but they sure do know when shit just isn't looking right. For some comparison, I too have a set of custom Deaver 9pack set at 1.5" lift. Now I don't have a second gen taco, but leafs are leafs....and shouldn't be flat yet alone negative. Just my :2cents:
The differance between my Deaver 9-pack and yours is mine are rated for heavier payload at 700 lbs. over stock...

They were engineered by Jeff to carry more weight and less lift and until I actually hit that 700 lbs. threshold, the rear will not even sag unlike the stock springs that went severe negative arch with just the heavier rear bumber and topper installed...

The ride is ultra smooth for a lifted pickup and we are now experimenting with this shackle setup before we consider race brutal toughness in a future set of shackles...
 

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Ok dude I had a 4in NONFLAT spring and the sucker still inverted on my old truck and the shackle angle was within reason. Like I said jman If he happy with it and it carries more weight than yours just leave him the fuck alone man I dont get how some of you people think that everybodies truck need to be exactly like your or else its worthless. Everybody (money willing) can put a locker and a snorkle that will never be used and a couple bumpers on their rig. I just dont get why everybody has to have the same shit on their rig as you guys to be a GOOD truck I dont get it. After all this isnt pirate 4x4 where you got to swap out every stock part for some stupid shit to be cool or for people to know what they talking abt.
WTF? No one is saying the OP has to build his truck like theirs. They are just stating the fact that the spring arc doesn't look normal, especially for brand new, and maybe he should get it checked out regardless of spring rate or who built them.

Geez' who the hell shit in your cereal?
 

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The differance between my Deaver 9-pack and yours is mine are rated for heavier payload at 700 lbs. over stock...

They were engineered by Jeff to carry more weight and less lift and until I actually hit that 700 lbs. threshold, the rear will not even sag unlike the stock springs that went severe negative arch with just the heavier rear bumber and topper installed...

The ride is ultra smooth for a lifted pickup and we are now experimenting with this shackle setup before we consider race brutal toughness in a future set of shackles...
I should have specified custom better...Like you I called Deaver and had them build a custom set of springs specifically for more weight, and minimum lift. Hence the 1.5" vice 2./2.5". I don't remember the "engineer..." I spoke with, or the exact weight figure I stated when I had them built (it's been quite some time), but it wasn't an under estimate by any means. Needless to say my springs never are completely flat or negative arc on flat ground, even with my bed packed full of spare parts, food, recovery gear, camping gear, dirtbike, etc..Is your bed completely full of all the said 700lbs of gear in the pictures you have posted? Funny you say your ride is "ultra smooth" b/c mine is pretty damn rough in the back if I don't have all the weight in the back that they are designed to handle. Regardless, I would still be having Deaver take another look at it before you dismiss the case and assume it's right. Very possible the information you gave "Jeff" was not relayed to the guy in the shop actually doing the work, papers got mixed up, or something got overlooked. But if your happy then f it, it's your ride.
 

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I love how in the pictures you can clearly see that the ubolts have hit the frame under compression..

What you really need at this point is a jounce shock or 4" bump stop to limit your up travel.
 

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Don't wanna sound like a dick or nothin', but it says on your chart that you're fucked up. You talk like a ***, and your shit's all retarded.
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I should have specified custom better...Like you I called Deaver and had them build a custom set of springs specifically for more weight, and minimum lift. Hence the 1.5" vice 2./2.5". I don't remember the "engineer..." I spoke with, or the exact weight figure I stated when I had them built (it's been quite some time), but it wasn't an under estimate by any means. Needless to say my springs never are completely flat or negative arc on flat ground, even with my bed packed full of spare parts, food, recovery gear, camping gear, dirtbike, etc..Is your bed completely full of all the said 700lbs of gear in the pictures you have posted? Funny you say your ride is "ultra smooth" b/c mine is pretty damn rough in the back if I don't have all the weight in the back that they are designed to handle. Regardless, I would still be having Deaver take another look at it before you dismiss the case and assume it's right. Very possible the information you gave "Jeff" was not relayed to the guy in the shop actually doing the work, papers got mixed up, or something got overlooked. But if your happy then f it, it's your ride.

Jeff at Deaver has seen my pics of the springs in the rear, he is the one who engineered and built them and with the heavier payload rating and height I wanted, that is how the springs sat and that it is perfectly fine and normal...

I have a 1 ton rating with these springs, much different pack than yours and yes my ride is quite impressive for a lifted pickup...

My front went up 3 inches with the OME with 886 coils and Camburg UCA's, I have a very different setup than yours and she rides darn good...
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I love how in the pictures you can clearly see that the ubolts have hit the frame under compression..

What you really need at this point is a jounce shock or 4" bump stop to limit your up travel.
U-bolts have not hit the frame, if you notice I would bottom out the shocks before the u-bolts would even come close...

No damage whatsoever on the tips of the u-bolts, I happen to drive it daily and have a better idea about what happens in the rear...

I am looking at upgrading the rear shocks with Fox 2 inch, 14 inch travel with res., checking them out if they will fit soon as well as designing a rear bump stop...
 

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U-bolts have not hit the frame, if you notice I would bottom out the shocks before the u-bolts would even come close...

No damage whatsoever on the tips of the u-bolts, I happen to drive it daily and have a better idea about what happens in the rear...

I am looking at upgrading the rear shocks with Fox 2 inch, 14 inch travel with res., checking them out if they will fit soon as well as designing a rear bump stop...
HMMM that's weird, in the picture I can clearly see where the ubolt has hit the strike pad on the frame.

But maybe its an optical illusion, can you post pictures of the strike pads? Left and right?
 

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Jeff at Deaver has seen my pics of the springs in the rear, he is the one who engineered and built them and with the heavier payload rating and height I wanted, that is how the springs sat and that it is perfectly fine and normal...

I have a 1 ton rating with these springs, much different pack than yours and yes my ride is quite impressive for a lifted pickup...

My front went up 3 inches with the OME with 886 coils and Camburg UCA's, I have a very different setup than yours and she rides darn good...
Springs need arch. Yours are flat and with you running no bump stops with the smallest amount of flex you will go into negative arch which kills springs.

And another :doh: your shocks are not suposed to act as bumpstops. That is a good way to destroy them. But I'm sure that you think that is fine also.

I would suggest that you do some research on suspension setups, and stop thinking this Deaver guy is a genius because he's obviously just tying to make a dime and feeding you bullshit by saying your setup is perfectly normal.
 

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Oxi,
Not trying to badger you, just trying to help. You can do what you want with this. The numbers you have quoted just don't seem right. If the Deavers are built for +700 pounds then why is the back end so sacked with the springs in the factory mounts? I don't see the weight on your truck unless you've got 50,000 rounds of ammunition in the rear. The average stock distance from the center of the hub to the fender in front is 20", and 22" in back. Your truck does not look 23 in front, is it? The rear with the 700+springs doesn't even look to be at stock height when using the factory mountings. It just doesn't add up.

2 other points. Leaf spring geometry is more complicated than it might seem. For one thing, the front eye of the spring should be several inches below the rear eye, like around 5-6 inches IIRC. That geometry gives the best roll resistance and stablility to the spring. That is why Toyota uses a reverse shackle. Second, progressive leaf packs are not meant to live and operate in reverse arch. Up until the spring goes flat, the arch is smooth from eye to eye. After it passes flat it begins to get a wave in it with a hump developing over the axle. You can actually see a little of that shape developing in the pictures you posted. All of the progressive nature that we all strive to get goes out the window when that happens. The stress on the springs becomes very high and you could be headed for a broken spring. There are springs designed to operate in negative arch, but they are never built as progressive stacks. Generally they are mono springs or maybe 2 full length leaves. The older domestic trucks used this design in the front for many years.

If this is a Deaver designed and blessed suspension, It would sure be great if one of their engineers would join the discussion and explain how this is supposed to work. Maybe we are fucked in the head for questioning this, and if so, I'd like to learn a few things :confused: Again I'm not trying to give you shit, but I have been around suspension work a few times.
 
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