[97TacoDude]

OK how exactly does a superchrager make an engire more powerful? It's basically a high volume (high flow) compressor that produces positive pressure in the intake manifold. But does the extra power come from the fact that when the intake valves open air rushes in "under its own power" as opposed to having to be "pulled" in (thus robbing power)? In other words, a superchrager is really only making the intake stroke *less* of an energy hog that it would *normally* be, correct? So even with the best supercharger in the world, you're only going to get so much of a power boost because you can in theory only make the intake stroke rob zero power. And, if you are stupid and put smaller pulleys and such on you're not really doing much except second guessing the design engineers who made the 'charger, because there's only so much air you can cram into the cylinders. Is all of this correct of am I missing something?

 

[CMB1998]

OK how exactly does a superchrager make an engire more powerful? It's basically a high volume (high flow) compressor that produces positive pressure in the intake manifold. But does the extra power come from the fact that when the intake valves open air rushes in "under its own power" as opposed to having to be "pulled" in (thus robbing power)? In other words, a superchrager is really only making the intake stroke *less* of an energy hog that it would *normally* be, correct? So even with the best supercharger in the world, you're only going to get so much of a power boost because you can in theory only make the intake stroke rob zero power. And, if you are stupid and put smaller pulleys and such on you're not really doing much except second guessing the design engineers who made the 'charger, because there's only so much air you can cram into the cylinders. Is all of this correct of am I missing something?

I have noticed that your offering advice to people about the SC in other threads and you dont even know how it works. You were doing this on the 7th injector too. Its totally cool to ask a question like this, but dont act like you know whats going on to other people.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

This should answer your question. Esentially your changing the compression ratio of the engine when you add a blower. Your forcing gas into the combustion chamber instead of drawing it in. THe more gas (and air) you force in the more powerful the explosion that creates power. in responce to your question, No adding different pullies is not useless. Its the same as turning the fan on your stove from low to high. It forces more air (and hopefully gas) into the cyl causing an even larger explosion.

Picture it this way in your head. you have a three firecrackers and and an M80. Both are about the same size. You light the firecrackers and you get a loud pop. You light the M80 and you get a BOOM!. There is more powder in the M80 and its packed tighter.

Later,

Chris

 

[flatlandtacoma]

I have noticed that your offering advice to people about the SC in other threads and you dont even know how it works. ... but dont act like you know whats going on to other people.

Yeah, that's the same know-it-all dumbass who kept recommending leaded fuel on the 3rz supercharger thread. He doesn't have the first clue. I finally put him on ignore.

 

[CMB1998]

Yeah, that's the same know-it-all dumbass who kept recommending leaded fuel on the 3rz supercharger thread. He doesn't have the first clue. I finally put him on ignore.

I know. Just letting other members know. I have learned so much on here, and there is so much great information, just hate for people that dont know what their talking about to screw it up.

Later,

Chris

 

[TRDOLMAN]

And, if you are stupid and put smaller pulleys and such on you're not really doing much except second guessing the design engineers who made the 'charger, because there's only so much air you can cram into the cylinders.

Well Damn!! I guess I'll have to pull my 2.2" pulley off cause I sure don't want to be "stupid". NOT!!!

Dave

 

[97TacoDude]

Most people here couldn't understand how a SC works anyway. Was my explanation of the SC correct or not? It was perfectly correct. Are you in charge of who can offer advice and who can't? I tried to explain leaded gas in another post but because there's a sticker on the gas cap that says "unleaded fuel only" some guy who supposedly put me on his ignore list (except...if I am on his ignore list how did he even see my supercharger post???) got all insecure. Simply put, he couldn't follow my simple line of thought that deviated from the norm just a tad. And when did I offer any advice about the supercharger anyway? I was asking questions about it, was I not? I don't remember telling anyone to run out and buy a supercharger.

 

[DCabTaco]

Physics 101 will help too, but here is a better link:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm


As you can see that your discretion of the supercharger is not as simple as you put it.

It's basically a high volume (high flow) compressor that produces positive pressure in the intake manifold.

NO! It doesn’t build pressure in the intake manifold. There is no intake manifold anymore. The supercharger replaces it.

But does the extra power come from the fact that when the intake valves open air rushes in "under its own power" as opposed to having to be "pulled" in (thus robbing power)?

NO! Some knowledge of physics may help you understand this. At sea level atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 psi. This means there is 14.7 pounds per square inch of pressure all around you due to the “air” or occupied space by the air. So when you induce more air into the same space, like in the case of the supercharger, the pressure builds up,… thus the 6-8 psi of added boost.

So even with the best supercharger in the world, you're only going to get so much of a power boost because you can in theory only make the intake stroke rob zero power.

See my answer your question above and you will see why the answer to this question is also NO!

And, if you are stupid and put smaller pulleys and such on you're not really doing much except second guessing the design engineers who made the 'charger, because there's only so much air you can cram into the cylinders. Is all of this correct of am I missing something?

First off, your statement, “And, if you are stupid and put smaller pulleys” is offensive to those of us who have added the smaller pulley, but coming from someone with the knowledge based of your stature what else would someone expect. If you ask a question it is because you don’t know something, but to criticize without knowing is just stupidity brought about by ignorance. If you really want to know the way superchargers work, ask the question and don’t put false statements with ridicule. Now putting that statement aside for a while I will answer your last statement. No we are not second guessing the design engineers. The more air you “cram” in there the more pressure you build i.e. boost. However there is only so much boost you can safely produce with the existing internal components of the engine in question. So with that in mind the engineers will not take an aftermarket bolt on product to the limits and will always add margin(as well as cost savings) into the equation. They will sell the cheapest producible product at the highest possible profit with the best possible reliability(questionable sometimes especially when it comes to TRD SC) and the least amount of maintenance. With all that and much more taken into consideration, yes we enthusiast like to push things to the limits. Adding smaller pulleys adds more boost, but it doesn’t always translate into more power. My buddy physics once again tells me that with higher pressure comes higher temperatures. That is where intercoolers and water injectors come in. The cooler the temperature the more dense the air and thus more oxygen. So you could “cram” more “air” so to speak in the same available space with the same pressure. I am sorry if this was offensive to anyone else, but when someone comes in here making statements they obviously know nothing about and then call others stupid for doing something the know nothing about it just makes me a little upset.

I'll need some time to get over it,.... ok I'm over it ,... lol

 

[97TacoDude]

Physics 101 will help too, but here is a better link:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm


As you can see that your discretion of the supercharger is not as simple as you put it.



NO! It doesn’t build pressure in the intake manifold. There is no intake manifold anymore. The supercharger replaces it.


Oh man...we really are needing to go BACK TO BASICS here based on this comment...geeze...

 

[DCabTaco]

Most people here couldn't understand how a SC works anyway.

I'm just glad most people on here have the decency of asking rather than criticize and they get their questions answered without looking “stupid.”

Was my explanation of the SC correct or not?

Not one word of it!

It was perfectly correct.

I know I don't know everything, but if that is what you call perfectly correct,.. then call me Albert Einstein,... lol

Are you in charge of who can offer advice and who can't?

Wow, defensive here.... hmmm. Maybe some of us just try to point out that it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

peace!!

 

[DCabTaco]

Physics 101 will help too, but here is a better link:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm


As you can see that your discretion of the supercharger is not as simple as you put it.



NO! It doesn’t build pressure in the intake manifold. There is no intake manifold anymore. The supercharger replaces it.


Oh man...we really are needing to go BACK TO BASICS here based on this comment...geeze...

Keeping it simple for the simple minded!!!!

 

[CMB1998]

Most people here couldn't understand how a SC works anyway. Was my explanation of the SC correct or not? It was perfectly correct. Are you in charge of who can offer advice and who can't? I tried to explain leaded gas in another post but because there's a sticker on the gas cap that says "unleaded fuel only" some guy who supposedly put me on his ignore list (except...if I am on his ignore list how did he even see my supercharger post???) got all insecure. Simply put, he couldn't follow my simple line of thought that deviated from the norm just a tad. And when did I offer any advice about the supercharger anyway? I was asking questions about it, was I not? I don't remember telling anyone to run out and buy a supercharger.

Your explanition was quite wrong.

Later,

Chris

 

[97TacoDude]

My explanation of the supercharger was wrong? Hmmm, ok. So in "y'alls" world, a supercharger does not pressurize the air in the intake manifold? What does it do then? I am just curious. Do tell.

(yes, the supercharger does replace the stock intake manifold but it is also effectively an intake manifold...like I said, back to basics here apparently...)

 

[CMB1998]

My explanation of the supercharger was wrong? Hmmm, ok. So in "y'alls" world, a supercharger does not pressurize the air in the intake manifold? What does it do then? I am just curious. Do tell.

(yes, the supercharger does replace the stock intake manifold but it is also effectively an intake manifold...like I said, back to basics here apparently...)

If you were so sure how the SC worked why did you ask the question? We answered you, and told you that you were wrong. Your statment about being correct is like saying to someone that asks how a car works "you put gas in it". Your really an idiot and i think that this board would be a better place without you.

Later,

Chris

 

[bluetaco]

I can't believe I've read this far with out a link to Gadgets page on a supercharger thread!

 

[bluetaco]

oh yeah....

http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=71&page=1

hope this link can help

 

[97TacoDude]

First of all, the fact that atmospheric air is 14.7 PSI means absolutely nothing here...it's all relative. A supercharger produces boosted pressure above atmospheric, which in this case can be considered 0 for all intents and purposes.

My initial question was this (reworded):

Does the boost in POWER come from JUST the fact that air is being forced into the cylinders during the intake stroke (and therefore the engine does not have to "draw" it in, or is it a combination of that AND the fact that the compression ratio of the engine has been *effectively* increased which as most of us know means more power IF the O2 sensor can tell the ECU to get the air/fuel ratio to a stoichiometric point and IF the fuel injectors are of sufficient capacity to deliver the right amount of fuel.

I am thinking that what happened with the first generation TRD 3.4 supercharger is the engineers completly ignored the fuel side of the equation and produced a kit which was basically 3/4 of a supercharger.

I'm an idiot though. Idiots write like this apparently.

 

[DCabTaco]

I'm an idiot though. Idiots write like this apparently.

They do when they insist on being right about something they don't know anything about!

So I will keep it simple for ya.

The added power comes from the bigger BOOM in the combustion chamber due to the combination of the added “air” produced by the “boost” of pressure induced by the Supercharger (yes in the chamber that was previously occupied by the intake manifold) and the appropriate fuel. More air and fuel, bigger boom. Need more explanation I could get technical, but I’m afraid you might not understand.

IF the O2 sensor can tell the ECU to get the air/fuel ratio to a stoichiometric point and IF the fuel injectors are of sufficient capacity to deliver the right amount of fuel.

The jibber jabber of the 02’s and the injectors have nothing to do with the power produced by the addition of the supercharger just the capability to produce more power. Everything has to be calibrated correctly to work properly. (you are trying to maintain the proper air/fuel mixture at all times which is around 14.7:1 for our engines or 12.0:1 at WOT)


If you are trying to understand why TRD has various generations of SC’s is a totally different animal. The 2nd 3rd and 4th gen SC still don’t have fuel upgrades so they are still ¾ a supercharger. They have an added injector you can purchase as an add on to the SC, but still not a kit and still not a good design. Wait are you questioning the engineers on their design of the supercharger,… oh no not you! Why it would be stupid to do that just like adding the smaller pulley.

Oh and to clear things up,… PRESSURE is all that it is about,… yes relative, but still the concept of the supercharger. If you understand the concept you would understand that the pressure is built up with the power used up by the engine and thus negating your statement of “extra power come from the fact that when the intake valves open air rushes in under its own power” The added power by the combustion chamber has to be greater than the power loss by creating that boost of pressure to come out on top. None the less the power is still created by the combustion in the combustion chamber due to the added air/fuel mixture(BIGGER BOOM!).


I am just having fun now,...

please tell me the error of my ways oh mighty one!

 

[GoodyearMTR]

I am going to install a larger pulley and try and find some of that damn leaded fuel!! I wouldnt want an explosion to occur in the combustion chamber!

Sorry I was just kidding!!! Had to make someone laugh

 

[97TacoDude]

You're just having fun...basically re-gurgitating what I'm saying with slightly different words and argueing over semantics and acting like you've got something figured out that I don't. If you read your last post, you'll see that it agrees with mine for the most part, yet you still act like I'm "wrong". Have you seen a psychologist lately? Or, have you driven a Ford lately?

 

[04RedLobster]

why argue?....just chill...maybe both of u guys are right.....
many people come here (including myself) to learn new things...
you guys just have a different way of seeing things....that's all...

so just see back...eat some pizza..and watch some tv and relax...