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Discussion Starter #1
So it seems a lot of my acquaintances from back home are really getting into "mudding". This is really bothering me for a variety of reasons. The most important one being that they give us a bad name. Some acquaintances in particular have totally stock Ford trucks with big V8s that they use A LOT. They love to rip the shit out the ground, and make deep holes deeper. This is not a trail, fortunately. But its usually in town on private property or open space. There are several "mudding spots" around from the sounds of it. I must admit that when I was in high school, I went to one nearby the school on occasion. But I never spun a tire there. I just used the pre-existing trails that the mudders had created on what I later found out was private property. Now I wish I hadn't done that.

I'm almost afraid to post these, but this is one of the spots:



These guys are calling themselves wheelers, and posting pictures of them really ripping the land up. I'm afraid its serious ammo against us. I've tried suggesting they take it to the trails, and go easy on the throttle. They're not interested. They just want taller trucks with bigger engines for deeper mud holes.

I've been told about treading lightly ever since I was a little kid on dirt bikes. And I take the same ideas when wheeling. Like I said, I regret going into that place, as it only contributed to the problem. But I want to make clear that I never tore up the land there.

I wonder if we as a club can do something about these mud holes? See if we can shut them down and promote treading lightly to those who find it closed? We need to do something to show that we are not one in the same. What are your thoughts and opinions?
 

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maybe setup a booth at events like truck fest or car shows were they have entries for trucks:dunno: just an idea.
 

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Inform authorities :dunno:

There's an area up here by Brighton that's got some light trails through ravines, and up hills and such that I've played on before. At the time I didn't know it was private property. A local police officer kindly (sarcasm) informed me of such, and I haven't been back sense.

A hefty trespassing fine would likely make them want to go elsewhere/knock off the shit on private property. Unfortunately, this means they'll likely be going to our trails next and creating more problems.
 

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Where is home for you Kyle, that this is happening.I kind of agree with Nate. Inform the authorities or the land owner and then step back...
 

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If it's on private land, and it's not authorized by the landowner, there is a firing solution.

If it's on public land, there is a firing solution.

If it is on an established trail, there is a firing solution.

If it is on a job site, there is a firing solution.

If it is on land nobody cares about, then there's really no good solution other than trashing them on the interwebs.

Tell them to go to CORE, they have a mud area. The Grand Junction Desert is another possibility.

I would love to see those guys get in real mud, as opposed to wet grass or dirty water, and see how they deal with recovering their stuck junk.

I guess it comes down to compromising our hobby's public image, or compromising your relationship with some old acquaintances.

Personally...I don't know how to open my mouth in situations like that. The sort of person who thinks they're badass because they can spin out across wet ground is also the sort of person who'd never, ever risk their truck in the rocks, and who will always give a bunch of inane backchat that invariably makes you want to push their teeth out their asshole.

-Sean
 

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Hard to say ... I would think a start would be to continue to explain to them the actual problem, and that nobody is trying to take their fun away - it's just there's a place and a time, and this ain't it.
 

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How good of friends are these guys? How often do you run into them? All of thatis also going to dictate how this is handled...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Molly, this is in Arvada and surrounding areas. They're mostly good guys, and I would hate to call the cops on them. Besides, they're a small part of a much bigger problem. There are tons of people doing this. And it may be land nobody cares about, because there appears to be no effort by anyone to put up a sign or block it off or anything, at least at the spot I know of. I will continue to talk to them and try to convince them that the dirty water hole is not as badass as they think it is. But I just wish there was more we could do. Here is the reply after I said something on facebook to one:

"there is something brutally appealing to any machine tackling an obstacle. and mud flying and making a mess is enjoyable. for those of us who dont have a yota or dual t cases and 37's. mud is an alternative. not to mention locked axles and no doors and all that fancy high class shit"

This guy happens to be a pretty good friend, and hes mostly teasing me here, but it shows what I'm saying.
 

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Inform the property owners. You can find just about any of them with a quick online search of county property records. They may not be aware of what is taking place - could be out of state, could be investment properties, etc. Or they may know and not care, and if that's the case I'd rather they be tearing up private property with permission than making the holes on and near our trails bigger.

I think his reply shows the basic problem, that you're not going to convince people in that crowd/mindset that what they're doing is damaging or that they should care. As he said, it's not about being badass so much as having fun and making a mess. The only thing we as responsible wheelers can do is work with local enforcement to ensure they know the faction that isn't doing that kind of thing and being publically vocal about objecting to it.

I've witnessed over the past two seasons as the southern-most hole on Green Ridge has developed a 'bypass', and it was a pretty educational evolution. I also sat at the north end (or at least that intersection with the first route out) watching as two jackass ATVers mudded around off-trail despite the fencing. The lead of another group approached as I was there, and I commented to her about 'some people' and it was a good thing I couldn't write tickets. She laughed and seemed to agree, and then ten minutes later when the rest of her group showed up they were in there digging around too.

It's a tough spot to be in. I've been with people when they start doing something I don't agree with (several different kinds of situations, not specifically wheeling), and usually the best I can manage is not participating or just leaving. Sometimes I'll say something about it later, others I just don't participate if I know it's going to come up.
 

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"there is something brutally appealing to any machine tackling an obstacle. and mud flying and making a mess is enjoyable. for those of us who dont have a yota or dual t cases and 37's. mud is an alternative. not to mention locked axles and no doors and all that fancy high class shit"
Find a way to make it clear to him, you don't need any of that "fancy high class shit" to have a great rock truck, that's still a reliable daily driver. Have any of these said people ever actually been wheeling? (Since i know almost nobody here considers playing in the mud "wheeling")
 

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You can always point them to Green Ridge:D Plenty of mud.

http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php?id=273


I've witnessed over the past two seasons as the southern-most hole on Green Ridge has developed a 'bypass', and it was a pretty educational evolution. I also sat at the north end (or at least that intersection with the first route out) watching as two jackass ATVers mudded around off-trail despite the fencing. The lead of another group approached as I was there, and I commented to her about 'some people' and it was a good thing I couldn't write tickets. She laughed and seemed to agree, and then ten minutes later when the rest of her group showed up they were in there digging around too.
:rolleyes:
 

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Damn didnt see that post.
We may have to take them on a run or two next year and show them how its done right.
 

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Well, if we're going that route, a can of sardines in the heater intake works wonders. :eek:
:rofl:

Hey, I thought you were supposed to be the reasonable one :lmao:.

They're mostly good guys, and I would hate to call the cops on them.
Honestly, that really narrows the options...but maybe there's a solution.
"there is something brutally appealing to any machine tackling an obstacle. and mud flying and making a mess is enjoyable. for those of us who dont have a yota or dual t cases and 37's. mud is an alternative. not to mention locked axles and no doors and all that fancy high class shit"
I'll be honest and say that I agree with your buddy--except anyone who rides trails knows that's the best way to close a trail and give us all a bad name, so as much fun as it is, that's why we don't do it.

So where does that leave us...

I suppose you could try and tell him that his bullshit in that vacant lot is what turns public opinion against letting the rest of us run trails in the backcountry, so if he ever wants to be able to drive in the woods, he needs to stop thrashing around in his suburban kiddie pool. To be specific, the contentious picture shown at the recent public hearing in Eagle County regarding the proposed Hidden Gems Wilderness was of exactly what he and his buddies are doing, and it is used as ammunition against motorsports in general.

That would be the reasonable thing to say.

But I don't think he'll listen to reason.

I think you'll get more results by saying he's a pussy, that his truck is more capable a vehicle than he is as a driver, that he doesn't know what a real obstacle is, that he needs to step out of the kiddie pool or his testicles are never gonna drop, and there's a kickass bunch of people who are willing to show him the ropes and keep his head up if he ever decides to lose the water wings :flipoff4:.

He can redeem himself by showing up for a trail run :lmao:. I agree 100% with these two comments...

Find a way to make it clear to him, you don't need any of that "fancy high class shit" to have a great rock truck, that's still a reliable daily driver. Have any of these said people ever actually been wheeling? (Since i know almost nobody here considers playing in the mud "wheeling")
Damn didnt see that post.
We may have to take them on a run or two next year and show them how its done right.
Bring them out. If they want it hardcore, we'll do it hardcore. I had my Tundra up OCG with open diffs, stock gears and about 2" lift, and 35" tires, got over Whale Rock and only turned around cuz it was raining and AxleIke said the Brotastic Edition was losing traction in the wet further up. I also thrashed some fiberglass, bent some metal, and got stuck a few times. Push them to their individual limits, and see if they come through, or if they go crying like little bitches back to their kiddie pool full of dirty water.

Call them out...that is my proposed solution :cool:.

-Sean
 

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:rofl:

Hey, I thought you were supposed to be the reasonable one :lmao:.
It's entirely reasonable to instigate that sort of behavior! :p

Ok, now, seriously -

I'd take the ladder approach. Start at the base with a personal conversation. If that doesn't work, escalate. Understand that the property owners may end up calling the police if they discover the trespassing.
 

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All you can do is try and talk to them and get them to stop. invite them on a run if they want to use their trucks. other than that you can let the police/landowners take care of it.
 

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now that we've talked about all the reasonable options why dont we take a tire iron to each of their trucks if they refuse to stop. then take a baseball bat to their heads if they still insist. :p

*disclaimer, the smiley is intended to show that this is a joke and not intended to cause an uproar as i know happens around here*
 
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