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Discussion Starter #1
We are all off-road enthusiasts here, and all want to keep our trails open so that we can continue to use them in the future. My question is why aren't we as a club a club member of Tread Lightly!? Tread Lightly! provides a way for clubs to express their concern for the deterioration of recreational opportunities. Clubs and Associations play a critical role in spreading the Tread Lightly! message, empowering generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly. Club members assist in disseminating Tread Lightly!'s message, principles and educational materials to peers and others while at the same time building enthusiasm for the program.

http://www.treadlightly.org/memberships.mv?action=list&type=Club

Can we as a club afford to join as a club member? I would bet that we could even run a collection of donations and gain more than enough funds to pay for the membership fee. What do you all think?
 

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Random Dude
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What has tread lightly done as a group lately? What do we serve to gain by supporting them financially? I do not recommend that we use our donation money to support tread lightly.

While we're on the subject, what has BRC or Cal4wheel done for me lately? These groups seem to have run out of energy.

If you want to support a group financially you should get behind Friends of the Rubicon. They have their act together and are proactively working with the forest service to make the Rubicon a better place to be. Other clubs and organizations (cal4wheel, brc, treadlightly) should look at FOTR for inspiration. They're making headlines as they make huge progress.
 

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BigBadBob0 said:
What has tread lightly done as a group lately? What do we serve to gain by supporting them financially? I do not recommend that we use our donation money to support tread lightly.
What has the Red Cross done for us lately? What do we serve to gain by supporting them financially? :dunno: I do not recommend that we use our donation money to support the Red Cross.

Sorry, just throwing gas on the fire... :flamethro
 

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That seems a little bit different. The redcross does a lot more than make stickers that say tread lightly, without ever defining to the general public what the hell tread lightly means. Joe "RedNeck" Wheeler doesn't know that driving through that protected marshland isn't treading lightly.

I'm involved with many groups that are proactively trying to make a difference. Never to my recollection have I seen tread lightly do anything. To me that says a lot.
 

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Big tars, little bed.
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I just watched Peterson's 4 Wheel and Off-Road 2005 Ultimate Adventure Preview on TLC (The Learning Channel) and all the fawking narrator said was "get off road and tear it up" of course we understand but others may get the wrong idea. Not smart to broadcast that in such a light. :2cents:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Either way, this section of our forum, helps teach wheeling newbies about how to wheel respectfully so that our trails nationwide stay open for continued use in the future. I see Bob's point as to what have they done for us, but the real question is what can we do to improve and keep our trails open. Yeah we all do our part and wheel resposibly and teach others proper trail edicicate, but I feel that we are a large club and we sould support some or other oganizations that keep our trails open for future use, rather than us all individually supporting theese organizations.

Bob has suggested that we support FOTR, which is a great recomendation, however the nation wide members (IE: a NY TTORA member) may ask what has the FOTR done for them.

I also was not asking that we use our donations to support Tread Lightly! but rather stir up a conversation and idea's on how we as a group can support our sport more than we currently are. I was also playing with the idea of another donation to make the membership possible. I know if it aint broke don't fix it, but in order to continue to enjoy wheeling we all need to pitch in.

This is not an issue that we need to argue about, I just thought it might give us some recognition, and possibly some say in the organization (Tread Lightly!) and get it back to what it used to be in the late 90's. Also if we continue to write letters, keep on the trails, and keep the trails clean, we are doing our part. In my mind that is enough, but who is to say what is enough?


BigBadBob0 said:
What has tread lightly done as a group lately? What do we serve to gain by supporting them financially? I do not recommend that we use our donation money to support tread lightly.

While we're on the subject, what has BRC or Cal4wheel done for me lately? These groups seem to have run out of energy.

If you want to support a group financially you should get behind Friends of the Rubicon. They have their act together and are proactively working with the forest service to make the Rubicon a better place to be. Other clubs and organizations (cal4wheel, brc, treadlightly) should look at FOTR for inspiration. They're making headlines as they make huge progress.
 

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BigBadBob0 said:
That seems a little bit different. The redcross does a lot more than make stickers that say tread lightly, without ever defining to the general public what the hell tread lightly means. Joe "RedNeck" Wheeler doesn't know that driving through that protected marshland isn't treading lightly.

I'm involved with many groups that are proactively trying to make a difference. Never to my recollection have I seen tread lightly do anything. To me that says a lot.
Ok...your shot missed my target slightly. ;) Let me re-define the target better.

From the www.tacomaterritory.com/donations.php page:
Please direct any technical questions about what the money will be used for to Bob (BigBadBob0)
Could you define how the money will be spent? I'm a charter donor, so I assume my money went towards the server. The club has since made donations to the BRC and other off-road organizations. This recent (sizable) donation to the Red Cross was the first of its kind (that I'm aware of) that went to a cause not directly linked to off-roading. Will the club be making future donations to causes not related to off-roading?
 

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Hoist The Colors!
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flyingwil said:
Either way, this section of our forum, helps teach wheeling newbies about how to wheel respectfully so that our trails nationwide stay open for continued use in the future. I see Bob's point as to what have they done for us, but the real question is what can we do to improve and keep our trails open. Yeah we all do our part and wheel resposibly and teach others proper trail edicicate, but I feel that we are a large club and we sould support some or other oganizations that keep our trails open for future use, rather than us all individually supporting theese organizations.

Bob has suggested that we support FOTR, which is a great recomendation, however the nation wide members (IE: a NY TTORA member) may ask what has the FOTR done for them.

I also was not asking that we use our donations to support Tread Lightly! but rather stir up a conversation and idea's on how we as a group can support our sport more than we currently are. I was also playing with the idea of another donation to make the membership possible. I know if it aint broke don't fix it, but in order to continue to enjoy wheeling we all need to pitch in.

This is not an issue that we need to argue about, I just thought it might give us some recognition, and possibly some say in the organization (Tread Lightly!) and get it back to what it used to be in the late 90's. Also if we continue to write letters, keep on the trails, and keep the trails clean, we are doing our part. In my mind that is enough, but who is to say what is enough?
Just FYI, in case you weren't aware, we do have a Club Membership with BRC. If you goto http://www.sharetrails.org/index.cfm?page=14 and scroll down to Texas (under Texas as that is where our National Charter address is) you will see us listed.
 

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ShowStop said:
Ok...your shot missed my target slightly. ;) Let me re-define the target better.

From the www.tacomaterritory.com/donations.php page:

Could you define how the money will be spent? I'm a charter donor, so I assume my money went towards the server. The club has since made donations to the BRC and other off-road organizations. This recent (sizable) donation to the Red Cross was the first of its kind (that I'm aware of) that went to a cause not directly linked to off-roading. Will the club be making future donations to causes not related to off-roading?
The donation to the Red Cross was the first donation to an organization that was not off-road related in nature. Will we make anymore donations to causes not related to off-roading in the future...I would venture to say that it is likely that we could but certainly want to support those organization that are off-road related on a continuous basis.
 

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ShowStop said:
Could you define how the money will be spent? I'm a charter donor, so I assume my money went towards the server. The club has since made donations to the BRC and other off-road organizations. This recent (sizable) donation to the Red Cross was the first of its kind (that I'm aware of) that went to a cause not directly linked to off-roading. Will the club be making future donations to causes not related to off-roading?

I too am a charter member, and I see your point. I agree with you on that level, but I also feel that the recent donation is justifiable. The cause was IMO nothing ANTI 4wd...but rather a LOT of U.S. citizens in need of help. Maybe all that money went into some fucksticks pocket, or maybe it went DIRECTLY to the people who lost everything they had. Either way, I don't feel it was a "bad" donation on OUR behalf. I will continue to contribute to TTORA YEARLY. Even though I already am a 'charter' doner does not mean I cannot donate more. And I will.

I lost my home (well, my parents home) in the Oakland Hills fire in 1991. The red cross was there, and I actually got $250 in a clothing voucher, good at many local places where I could at least get some clothes on my back. Same goes for my brother, my father, and my mother.... I have said 'what comes around; goes around' quite a few times....this time I have ACTUALLY been there. Not to mention, five days later while scouring our burned remains, a red-cross van comes outta nowhere and delivers sandwiches for lunch to those who are looking thru ashes for anything and everything that was destroyed.
 

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Angry Andy said:
I too am a charter member, and I see your point. I agree with you on that level, but I also feel that the recent donation is justifiable. The cause was IMO nothing ANTI 4wd...but rather a LOT of U.S. citizens in need of help. Maybe all that money went into some fucksticks pocket, or maybe it went DIRECTLY to the people who lost everything they had. Either way, I don't feel it was a "bad" donation on OUR behalf. I will continue to contribute to TTORA YEARLY. Even though I already am a 'charter' doner does not mean I cannot donate more. And I will.

I lost my home (well, my parents home) in the Oakland Hills fire in 1991. The red cross was there, and I actually got $250 in a clothing voucher, good at many local places where I could at least get some clothes on my back. Same goes for my brother, my father, and my mother.... I have said 'what comes around; goes around' quite a few times....this time I have ACTUALLY been there. Not to mention, five days later while scouring our burned remains, a red-cross van comes outta nowhere and delivers sandwiches for lunch to those who are looking thru ashes for anything and everything that was destroyed.
I do agree that the donation was not a "bad" donation nor a donation that went to anything anti-4wd. I haven't seen any direct proof, but I'd guess that some TTORA members got relief from the Red Cross following the hurricanes. Thats members helping members, and :kewl: in my book.

I'm just trying to open a discussion as to whether people here would have expected the funds to go towards such a cause. From what I can tell, this was the 2nd largest donation that TTORA has contributed to any cause. This was the only one that members were not aware of until the money was sent. Maybe this was discussed amongst TPTB (Shannon, regionals, presidents), but never with the general members at large. For an off-roading donation, I never would have questioned it, but since it was otherwise, thats the only reason I'm muddying the waters now.
 

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ShowStop said:
From what I can tell, this was the 2nd largest donation that TTORA has contributed to any cause. This was the only one that members were not aware of until the money was sent. Maybe this was discussed amongst TPTB (Shannon, regionals, presidents), but never with the general members at large. For an off-roading donation, I never would have questioned it, but since it was otherwise, thats the only reason I'm muddying the waters now.
Believe me, had I'd known that anybody on this forum would have any problem with those funds being donated to the Red Cross I would have never sent in the contribution. I saw it as fellow neighbors needing assistance and never gave it a second thought.

In the future I will certainly ask for all the members opinions here before I give to another organization that is not off-road oriented. Just like this Christmas I had planned to maybe make a donation on TTORA's behaf to Toys for Tots.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
TACOZILLA said:
Just FYI, in case you weren't aware, we do have a Club Membership with BRC. If you goto http://www.sharetrails.org/index.cfm?page=14 and scroll down to Texas (under Texas as that is where our National Charter address is) you will see us listed.
That is great, and something I was unaware of. However, I hope you can see what I am trying to do. We as a group are great at edicating our member whether new or old, on keeping our trails open. I just think that TTORA deserves some credit for that. Yeah it is all in part of our sport, and we all indivdually need to support organizations that help keep our land open.

I was not questioning where our donation money goes to. I was just suggesting that we become a club member of tread lightly! and possibly help the organization get to where we think it should be in supporting us as a wheeling club and individul wheelers. But to do this the money would most like be a seperate donation, or if allotted out of current funds.

This is not a must do, however just an idea. How great would it be to get the TV shows that say "get out there and tear it up!" to do even 1 min on proper trail edicate? This would help the image of wheelers, and great clubs (like this one) have a better image in the public's eye.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
TACOZILLA said:
Believe me, had I'd known that anybody on this forum would have any problem with those funds being donated to the Red Cross I would have never sent in the contribution. I saw it as fellow neighbors needing assistance and never gave it a second thought.

In the future I will certainly ask for all the members opinions here before I give to another organization that is not off-road oriented. Just like this Christmas I had planned to maybe make a donation on TTORA's behaf to Toys for Tots.
No way! I totally agree with Shannon here, however I think that us as TTORA donating to Toys for Tots, or any organization that aids or helps the less fortunate should not need a vote or approval from members! If it were you in the other shoes you would love to recieve what these organizations do, and would be very thankful for it.

I am prod to say that I have made a donation to TTORA and I feel very confident that the money donated will be put to good use to better others. Others = Wheelers and less fortunate non-wheelers.

I am sorry to see that a great donation to the Red Cross discourages you from donating. The whole point in donating to keep things running smothly and help make things better in our environment. For that fact alone I chose to donate to TTORA. It keeps our great club up and going and makes it better for all of us and others.
 

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flyingwil said:
This is not a must do, however just an idea. How great would it be to get the TV shows that say "get out there and tear it up!" to do even 1 min on proper trail edicate? This would help the image of wheelers, and great clubs (like this one) have a better image in the public's eye.
I am with you 100% on this point. Tread Lightly should be lobbying big time to have every single SUV commercial that depicts driving off of paved roads include something about responsible OHV use. I don't see them taking strides to do this and as such I don't give them my money. The same goes for Cal4Wheel and its the reason I'm not a member.

Imagine TTORA as being a group of venture capitalists. We have a sizable amount of money that we can invest into groups that we think will give us a good ROI. Would you invest in a company that had a business plan that hadn't been updated in years?

BRC is a fairly active, nationally recognized group. I see them in the "news" quite often and they are even partnered with FOTR. We picked them as the group to donate raffle proceeds to after the NorCal Takeover in 2004. Ever since then we've used them as our money sink because they're a nationally recognized group.

Could I ever ask TTORA to donate to FOTR? Nope. Doesn't make sense because of their very local impact (as you pointed out). However, I can still use them as the gold standard to which other groups are compared :)
 

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flyingwil said:
No way! I totally agree with Shannon here, however I think that us as TTORA donating to Toys for Tots, or any organization that aids or helps the less fortunate should not need a vote or approval from members! If it were you in the other shoes you would love to recieve what these organizations do, and would be very thankful for it.
I have to disagree here. If I wanted to donate to a group that did lots of humanitarian effort types of things I'd find someone else to give my money to (or donate my services to, I should note that I've never given a dime in the form of cash to TTORA, I just donate tens of thousands of dollars of time to the club every year). TTORA is an off-roading club. We've made that clear. The day that the sierra club closes its doors we should start looking to give our money to the needy. Until then we're a 4 wheeling club and barring extreme circumstances (the hurricane is an example) let's stick to our mission statement.
 

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ShowStop said:
What has the Red Cross done for us lately? What do we serve to gain by supporting them financially? :dunno: I do not recommend that we use our donation money to support the Red Cross.

Sorry, just throwing gas on the fire... :flamethro
What it does for us is that it shows that we dont have our head up our own cause. It showed that as much as we want to donate the money towards our own cause we are smart and caring enough to realize that helping people who had lost everything was more important than our cause. To say "screw them and their "now non-existent house" Id rather protect my hobby is quite selfish IMO. So maybe what we'll get out of this is some people who see off-roaders not as knuckle heads who go out and litter and shit all over the place, but as caring humanitarians who actually care for someone other than themselves. And maybe they'll help us out when we're are losing our next OHV. Yeah, you say you could donate privately yourself, but no one knows who "Bob" is. But they may get curious and look up "TTORA" and appreciate it. And not only will they be thankful but people who weren't affected can see and appreciate that we saw what was really important.:xusflag:
 

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Just to make it clear, I support the Red Cross donation that Shannon made. I think Tyler (showstop) does as well. I think his post was trying to point out how dumb my post sounded when he read it.

But, I've been wrong before. Who knows.
 

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BigBadBob0 said:
Just to make it clear, I support the Red Cross donation that Shannon made. I think Tyler (showstop) does as well. I think his post was trying to point out how dumb my post sounded when he read it.

But, I've been wrong before. Who knows.
Ah geez, I think you're right now that I re-read everything :eek: Well at least everyone knows how I feel :doh: . :D
 

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ShowStop said:
I do agree that the donation was not a "bad" donation nor a donation that went to anything anti-4wd. I haven't seen any direct proof, but I'd guess that some TTORA members got relief from the Red Cross following the hurricanes. Thats members helping members, and :kewl: in my book.

I'm just trying to open a discussion as to whether people here would have expected the funds to go towards such a cause. From what I can tell, this was the 2nd largest donation that TTORA has contributed to any cause. This was the only one that members were not aware of until the money was sent. Maybe this was discussed amongst TPTB (Shannon, regionals, presidents), but never with the general members at large. For an off-roading donation, I never would have questioned it, but since it was otherwise, thats the only reason I'm muddying the waters now.
Certianly you are not against such donations to members and non members in need. It is maybe true as Andy said hard to follow the money after it has been given, but I do support money being given on behalf of TTORA to certian chartiable causes. I would not think that we would need a majority member vote about giving in the future. I think as long as the presidents agree by a majority and Shannon gives his blessing then it is ok. Sure open it up for discussion here, but it should not be the determining factor alone. :2cents:
 
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