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Ok, time for a little rant.

First of all, lets start out by remembering that TTORA is based off the fundamentals of Tread Lightly and the Blue Ribbon Coalition - both responsible land use organizations that promote recreation while keeping lands open for us to enjoy our hobby.

After reading the "Douglas" thread, it's quite apparent that some people don't care to keep their junk on established trails. Suggesting "virgin lines" with cactus growing smack dab in the middle of the line is hardly abiding by the Tread Lightly ideals. It's people like that who ruin it for everyone when the Forest Service shuts down an area. Want to give 4 wheelers a bad name? Go trample some desert, put rubber marks and rear-diff rock scrapes where pristine desert used to be.

I'm not trying to be Mr. Liberal Treehugger because I'm far form it. I like 4wheeling just as much as everyone on here. However, established trails are for trucks and virgin desert is not. Ever see all the "trails" going straight up to the peaks on some of the foothills of South Mountain? I know the guys who used to run them before it was all blocked off. Back in the 70's. It's still scarred after 30+ years.

Now some will come back at me saying that the "best" 4.5 trails are made by people picking a line through the desert and going with it. Probably so. However, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about wheeling your rig. If it's there and established, go for it. If you go out and make new trails, quit being lazy and drive to find established trails that will challenge your rig. You're in one of the best states for 4 wheeling, there's plenty out there.

*end rant*
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah, I am guilty of commenting on that thread, but knew it was not right. Good man for calling us out on this one. I think we can sometimes get complacent.
It's all good. We've all been tempted to romp up something that looked fun. Too much of that and places start looking like the first five miles of the Four Peaks Road! :)
 

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I know that there are always rules and regulations, But this is Down in douglas that we are talking about! where wheeling is not under the microscope like it is here in the valley. I to zoned in on the catus first before the rest of the picture, But I believe that down in douglas where wheeling is not looked down upon because it is not a highly populated area like it is is here in the valley and destroying the enviroment is not an issue and OUR land should and will be enjoyed irreguardless of what some bitches say on here or any other board for that matter! my 2c
 

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I know that there are always rules and regulations, But this is Down in douglas that we are talking about!
If we applied that logic to life in general the world would go to shit quick. Acting like a fuck up when no one is watching is fine when it only affects you (the vid of the kid shooting bottle rockets out of his ass comes to mind). When it is blazing new trails (BTG guys are guilty of this too) and telling the world about it that is a whole other issue. Greenies can use these sorts of posts as ammo. If you see somewhere you want to explore.... hike it.
 

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I know that there are always rules and regulations, But this is Down in douglas that we are talking about! where wheeling is not under the microscope like it is here in the valley. I to zoned in on the catus first before the rest of the picture, But I believe that down in douglas where wheeling is not looked down upon because it is not a highly populated area like it is is here in the valley and destroying the enviroment is not an issue and OUR land should and will be enjoyed irreguardless of what some bitches say on here or any other board for that matter! my 2c
:asshat:

If "enjoying" our environment means tearing the shit out of untraveled sections of land, maybe you should get a new hobby.

:2cents:
 

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I know that there are always rules and regulations, But this is Down in douglas that we are talking about! where wheeling is not under the microscope like it is here in the valley. I to zoned in on the catus first before the rest of the picture, But I believe that down in douglas where wheeling is not looked down upon because it is not a highly populated area like it is is here in the valley and destroying the enviroment is not an issue and OUR land should and will be enjoyed irreguardless of what some bitches say on here or any other board for that matter! my 2c
With all due respect, any and all land use in the US is being viewed under a microscope. I understand your frustration with regard to use of land that is available to the public, but please don't miss the point. Giving anyone the opportunity to play "chicken little" (i.e. enviro groups, "Oh look at what those nasty OHV people are doing!") is foolish and irresponsible.

Signed,
The guy that always has a tool box full of junk, garbage and other peoples crap left on the known use trials after a day (OK, in my case a half a day :D ) of wheeling.
 

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... and OUR land should and will be enjoyed irreguardless of what some bitches say on here or any other board for that matter! my 2c
Not a f*cking word! The second someone makes up new words they lose all credibility for whatever they're talking about....here's your sign :xsmash:
 

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Trails

How in the world do you think trails became trails. Did the BLM open them up? I hope your not waiting to see that happen. You don't have to tear the hell out of the environment climbing up a rock waterfall. Cutting up dirt hills is another thing all together. Have you seen what the guys who "don't need no stinking lockers" have done to the side of Scorpian by climbing up thru the dirt on the right side? Just my opinion.
 

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This is a tough topic because some of the best trails have been created by driving up wash to a fall or whatever. however most of our trails here in az are old mining access that has been not been maintained for years. Still if your going and "cutting" a trail even being repsectful of the land it can come under fire in a heartbeat no matter what part of the country you are in. Private owned lands are a differnt story if the owner is allowing it.

Seems alot of the buggy crowd is going and finding new stuff, by new stuff I mean making new trails. Im 50/50 on this and i think its cool that new hardcore stuff is poping up but on the other hand this is thin ice to be on. The thing about washes is alot of times you have no idea its even a trail expect for the road leading in and out of it. When I think of trail cutting I think of some jackass ripping across raw desert with cacti flying....dunno tough subject.

yotamonkey seems you have blinders on, it does not matter what part of the state you are in be aware someone somewhere is watching. Dont feed the animals with more reasons to rain on our parade of enjoying wheeling
 

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I've already been scolded. I know nothing, see nothing, and hear nothing!:D I agree that there are very few "approved" trails around, unless you are talking about the mentioned "old mining roads". Bottom line, don't post pics and describe areas that may someday become, or not become a trail. Everyone should be concerned about "misuse" of "our" lands or we will certainly lose them. The location is completely irrelevant because there are numerous groups whose sole purpose in life seems to be preventing fun, and they will use ANY ammunition to accomplish this goal.
 

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How in the world do you think trails became trails. Did the BLM open them up? I hope your not waiting to see that happen. You don't have to tear the hell out of the environment climbing up a rock waterfall. Cutting up dirt hills is another thing all together. Have you seen what the guys who "don't need no stinking lockers" have done to the side of Scorpian by climbing up thru the dirt on the right side? Just my opinion.
After a nice long discussion with one the environmental activists group here in AZ, they said that they would be happy, and I quote, "if there were no new trails created starting today". With the abundance of trails in this state, at all levels with or without lockers, we have it pretty damn good here. I personally would be very satisfied with running only the known existing trails for the tradeoff of keeping them open while making the environmentalists happy. That's not a bad compromise if you ask me!

Yes, it is OUR land but we are not the ONLY people using it. There are others who like to recreate (including myself), other than wheeling, and they should be allowed to enjoy it just as we do. Look at Moab. That is a place where some of the best wheeling and mountain biking are in the US. There is a balance and respect for each activity there. If the state of Utah can figure it out, then there's no reason AZ can't.

Another great example it the Rubicon. When I was there last year I spent 3 days hiking and 2 days rock climbing in the area as well as 3 days wheeling the 'Con. When I was hiking & climbing it was nice to get away into the wilderness and away from civilization...until I saw some jackass with his kid on dirt bikes on our hiking trail where there were clearly signs posted "no motorized vehicles". Being the outspoken person I am, and doing my part to help keep trails open, I had to go out of my way to catch him & say something. To my surprise he was not an A-hole who didn't give a sh*t and just blazed wherever. He had a map that was 2 years old that said that that trail was "open" to dirt bikes and they only had enough gas to get out that way. He was very apologetic and understood that what he was doing was wrong, but this was a special case...and I agreed.

The point is this: we have a lot of great trails to run here in the southwestern United States that are under constant scrutiny. It's up to each and every one of us to stand together as RESPONSIBLE off-roaders and tread lightly only on existing trails and call out those who don't. We need to "share" the land just as others "share" it with us. I for one do not want to see any of my favorite recreations go away because of the carelessness of others.

Just remember...we got it pretty good as it stands right now. Let's not push our luck.
 

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How in the world do you think trails became trails. Did the BLM open them up? I hope your not waiting to see that happen. You don't have to tear the hell out of the environment climbing up a rock waterfall. Cutting up dirt hills is another thing all together. Have you seen what the guys who "don't need no stinking lockers" have done to the side of Scorpian by climbing up thru the dirt on the right side? Just my opinion.
I agree that this is how a lot of trails came to be, but now with more and more people getting out, they go to shit real fast. Someone who went out and bought there first 4x4 and wants to go out and test it, they follow tire tracks until they find something cool to mess around on. Then they show their friends and end up tearing up the trail and rock stacking etc.

I think we can all agree that blazing trails in open desert is the worst, but blazing new washes and falls isn't much better
 

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Now if the greenies could just figure out a way to stop rains storms we'd be all set and nothing in those washes would ever get moved or disturbed.

I think we can all agree that blazing trails in open desert is the worst, but blazing new washes and falls isn't much better
 
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