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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey everyone, it was definitely hard to find information about Tacoma 4Runner/Tundra brake swaps so I hope this will help everyone out. I'm hoping to get as much information into one place as possible. As far as I know this information is correct, but if not please let me know with a PM. Some of the terms I used might not be correct, but bare with me. If theres anything else to ad please do! To my knowledge, this is the first Tundra to Tacoma caliper uprade. Thanks the 4 Runner gurus at Yotatech and to George4drV6 for his insights.


The Truck (heavy weighted modifications):
-2004 Toyota Tacoma Double Cab 4x4.
-Supercharged w/7th injector.
-Rear Demello hybrid bumper, “heavy duty” sliders.
-Front ARB bumper
-33 BFG All-terrains.
-1” steel wheel spacer.
-eDead sound deadening on doors and roof. Acoustiblok floor and firewall (approx 75 lbs total).


The Problem:
-Because of the heavier modifications and larger wheel size, the stock brakes where not able to stop the vehicle in emergency situations. Maximum braking power was about 50-60% of the pedal travel, further depressing the pedal would not increase braking power.
-Brake fluid would overheat causing the fluid to break down, or the brake components to breakdown internally causing the brake fluid to be contaminated (pictures below). Brakes would have to be bleed every 2 weeks or so, and would come out black. Brakes continue to loose compression resistance, and pedal feel would slowly become more and more “spongy.”
-Freeways where a nightmare and sudden yellow lights would leave my truck about 2/3rds in intersection at about 45 mph.
-Nearly impossible to tow.


Solution:
-199mm S13WE brake calipers from 99 to 03 Tundra with 12.5” rotors.
-Larger rotors, larger pistons.



Required materials:
-S13WE brake calipers and corresponding rotors. I ordered “2001 Toyota Tundra v8 4x4” parts at the auto parts store.
-Brake pads.
-16” wheels, with proper backspacing. (Possibly 4” backspacing, I used 4.5” with ample room left)
-Brake fluid.


Required tools:

-Drill and bits.
-14mm and 17mm sockets, 10mm wrench, lug nut wrench.
-Jack and jack-stands.


Modifications required:
-Bending the dust cover / disk shield.
-Drilling out the end of the banjo bolt approx 1/8”-1/4” deep.


Cost Total - $305.61:
-S13WE calipers $90 from eBay.
-Rotors from AutoZone $165 w/tax.
-Performance Friction brake pads (Same as TRD brake pad) w/Lifetime warranty at AutoZone $44.16 w/tax.
-Dot 3/ Dot 4 brake fluid $6.45 w/tax at Pep-Boys.


Time:
-Approx 2 to 3 hours.


Driving Impressions:
-Incredible improvement over stock brakes. As good as stock braking with stock tires, if not slightly better. A MUST for double cab Tacomas with 33” tires. I will post a side by side braking comparison with a similarly setup truck later.


FAQ:

Q: I was just googling for S13WE, and came across a thread at Tundra Solutions about a TSB on these calipers, and that post-TSB, they put in 13WL calipers in Tundras. Any clue why the S13WE was removed? Can the 13WL be used? Is it safer?
A: S13WE were the ones used for Tundras before 04 or 03 (cant remember). The Tundras were getting problems with quick brake pad wear and rotor warping, so they were replaced with S13WL 231mm calipers. Im not sure if they use the same rotor, but the phisical size of the caliper is much larger then the 199mm S13WE. The older S13WE were not recalled due to safety concerns or failures, but quick wear and warping. Those aren't as abundant ether, while there are many more S13WE availible due to the recall. They're too weak for Tundras (larger models), but very strong for my Double Cab 4x4 Tacoma with trail armor and 33's.

Q: Do you have to use the wheel spacers ?
A: Stock rims without spacers do fit with plenty of clearance (see pictures).

Q: Will this work on a 2wd prerun?
A: From what I gathered, it should work on 6 lug 2001 to 2004 Tacomas. 95.5 to 00 Should not have a problem ether, but I'm not certain.

Q: Will the stock master cylinder work?
A: So far the stock master cylinder works great. The travel on the pedal feels about the same as before. Some have stated that the 4 Runner and Tundra master brake cylinder looks the same size externally, but are unsure of actual volume.

Q: Does ABS still work?
A: After testing on some dirt/sandy trails, I saw that the ABS system still works after the modification. The usual clunking/clicking of the ABS system was there in the soft areas, and under normal driving the ABS light is not on (meaning that it is active). I can't say that the ABS system is running at 100% effectiveness, though I did not feel any difference from before.


Other Notes:
-Might be possible to swap the larger S13WL brake calipers also, but with trimming or removal of the dust cover.
-Does not interfere with Donahoe Racing coil-overs (the banjo does not come into contact with the lower coil mount on full lock and full droop).
-Calipers approximately same height and length, but slightly wider (see picture).
-4 Runners and Tundras front brakes are connected by a metal brake line and a flare nut. Tacomas use banjo bolts. The flare nut and banjo bolt are 10mm x 1.0 thread. The banjo bolt will fit into 4 runner / Tundra calipers with minor modification (see below).




Pictures and How-To:


Stock calipers and rotors.



The Tundra caliper test fitted with stock rotor.



Notice how the pistons stick further out compared to the stock rotor.


The modified banjo bolt. I used a large drill bit to drill down enough to where the material was removed upto the start of the thread, but not removing any thread. The angle on the drill bit was perfect depth. I also widened the center of the banjo with a smaller drill bit. There is a "nipple" at the bottom of the caliper connection, and the banjo will hit that before properly seating all the way if you do not remove some material at the end of the banjo bolt. When you tighten this bolt, make sure you get a snug connection between the bolt head, washers and banjo, and not the tip of the banjo bolt and the "nipple" inside the caliper.


Comparison of the Tacoma rotor (top) and the Tundra rotor (bottom).



Side view comparison.


Tundra rotor and stock dust cover. The dust cover is easily bent backwards. It is not nessessary to grind or cut any of the dust cover to fit the Tundra calipers.
 

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Discussion Starter #2

The Tundra rotor clears in the back.


After bending the dust cover back.


Entire assembly of the caliper, rotor, and brake pad. Notice the banjo is now pointed slightly twoards the back of the truck, and slightly to the outside. So far, it looks like it will not have any issues with the lower coil mount on the Donahoe Racing coil-overs. I have tested full lock and full droop so far.


Completed brake assembly, I have a 1 and 1/6th inch spacer (AOR steel). I know spacers suck.


Tacoma S12WN caliper vs Tundra S13WE calipers. I have the brake pads in the Tacoma one in this picture.


Banjo on the Tundra caliper now goes outwards and backwards.


Stock banjo goes nearly straight up in on the stock calipers, the Donahoe Coil-Overs hit the banjo bolt unless you bend it back.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)

Stock Tacoma brakes. Its a little hard, but you can see the dust cover in there.


Tundra brakes and rotors.


Stock wheel clearance on 16's.


Tundra caliper and rotor clearence on 16's.


What happens to your brake fluid when your brake system overheats. Theres actually particles on the left, clean fluid on the right (usually engine oil color and clear).


On the left side, you can tighten the banjo bolt and the little protrustion on the banjo itself will hit the caliper, allowing you to tighten and not have the hose/banjo spin while your tightening. On the right hand side, when you tighten the banjo bolt, there is nothing to stop the banjo from spinning. Use a pipe wrench or something to stop the banjo from spinning.


Here the wheel is installed with no spacer, so the stock 16" rims do work with a lot of room to spare.


Clearance from wheel to caliper.


Clearance from wheel to caliper, this angle is misleading, but there is a lot of room left.


Profile of the stock rim.


Head on view of the back of the stock wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The brakes are very tight now, and I'm able to stop in emergency situations. Before it was like my brakes would flatout fail it feels like, but now its controlled and within its comfortable braking capacity. There is a VERY large difference compared to stock.
 

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I wonder how hard it would be to get this to work on a '93 4runner. I know the way the rotors mount up are completely different, so I guess it's just wishful thinking. I really have not seen too many bigger brake options for my year. Nice job
 

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odonekanobe said:
I wonder how hard it would be to get this to work on a '93 4runner. I know the way the rotors mount up are completely different, so I guess it's just wishful thinking. I really have not seen too many bigger brake options for my year. Nice job
I wonder if this could work on a SA Yota front axle ;)
 

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Hey ArgonZero, Awesome write-up. One question that I have is do you know the volume of the stock calipers? Because if it is pretty close then I would assume ABS would still function normally....if your truck is ABS, does the ABS handle the larger calipers fine? Oh, and without the spacer would the calipers contact the rim? Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Seems like the ABS works but I'm not certain. There is no ABS warning light, and I haven't been able to lock them up yet so I'm not certain. I'm going to hit the trail this weekend so hopefully I can lock up the front and see what happens.

One other person has said that stock rims will fit the calipers, though I'm not sure. I do know that there was one other 4 Runner who installed the 231mm S13WL (The larger Tundra caliper, not the one I used) and it required him to grind down part of his stock rim. Since these are smaller, theres a possibility that theres no problem. If I have time, I'll try to take off my spacer and see if my stock rim works.

http://www.yotatech.com/showpost.php?p=778452&postcount=20
 

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glad to see some genuine tech on this board for a change, instead of the usual old-women bantering!
 

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An update would be appreciated regarding the ABS functioning and wheel fitment without the spacer. It's good to see this mod on a rig that serves double-duty, on the street and the trail. Do keep the good work and write-ups.

argonzero said:
Seems like the ABS works but I'm not certain. There is no ABS warning light, and I haven't been able to lock them up yet so I'm not certain. I'm going to hit the trail this weekend so hopefully I can lock up the front and see what happens.

One other person has said that stock rims will fit the calipers, though I'm not sure. I do know that there was one other 4 Runner who installed the 231mm S13WL (The larger Tundra caliper, not the one I used) and it required him to grind down part of his stock rim. Since these are smaller, theres a possibility that theres no problem. If I have time, I'll try to take off my spacer and see if my stock rim works.

http://www.yotatech.com/showpost.php?p=778452&postcount=20
 

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Discussion Starter #15
BBlazerSK5 said:
An update would be appreciated regarding the ABS functioning and wheel fitment without the spacer.
Just got back from a solid 60 miles of trails consisting of light crawling, dirt roads and trails. ABS does indeed work, its hard to pinpoint exactly which tires were affected but many times on the run while driving fast on downhill soft sand turns the ABS system kicked in, resulting in the pedal pulsing and that lovely ABS sound. After turning on the locker, the ABS was disabled and I was back to slipping and sliding round corners. It was likely that most of the time the rear was slipping, though I'm certain that the inside front tires were also locking up in soft patches of sand/dirt while going downhill. The ABS definitely still works, though I can't vouch for how effective it is, it was doing its job.

We took the twisty road back home, and these brakes were relentless! There was no brake fade what so ever down the curviest sections of road, every brake was as powerful as the first and at all speeds.

After the trip, the brake lines and banjo were still properly seated and there were no visible leaks.

I'll have pictures of stock and after-market rims up very soon hopefully.
 

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Maybe this is a dumb question, but are the drum brakes on a Tundra the same size as the Tacoma or are they bigger as well? My thought was all around brake upgrade. :p

BTW this is a very cool write up, on many levels. What impresses me the most is that stock parts can be used to upgrade, therefor getting parts on the road should be a lot easier!

Thanks for sharing this write up!

Wally
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I just tested the stock Tacoma rims with no spacer and they fit with ample clearance (pictures above)!

I was thinking about doing Tundra brakes all around too, but I'm not sure if the rear are bigger or if it would make much of a difference. The fronts were a huge difference, money well spent.
 

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Thanks for the quick change-up and test shots argon...now it makes me want to sell the new x-drilled rotors and hawk pads I just picked up...and the budget you worked on for this project is so reasonable considering the improvement...more to think about.
 

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any chance this might work with 15" wheels with 3.25 bs?
 

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blackbear said:
any chance this might work with 15" wheels with 3.25 bs?
I seriously doubt it but if this guy has an ON 15" wheel he can check ;)
 
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