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Discussion Starter #1
I see URD has a new 5vz product on the market, let me just say I love to see new 5vz products being put out. What Im curious about is what are the advantages to this new 7th inj. kit over the older Fuel upgrade kit? Its 100$ cheaper, but adding the extra feul through the extra injector doesnt seem like it would work as well as fueling properly through six correctly sized injectors as in the old kit. Anyone have any ideas?

http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=79_80&products_id=1260518512
 

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There are a couple of bennefits to this kit. One is that it is easier to tune one additional injector than six larger ones. The other bennefit is that it is like the TRD 7th kit plus the URD AIT all in one package for less than the cost of the URD upgrade kit with 6 injectors. One could argue the intercooling effect of running the seventh injector is also a big plus.

I have been waiting for URD to release this kit for several months now, and you tease me with a link that when I click gives me a page that says product not found!
 

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Now please tell me just how tuning is any easier.
Aside from the point that it makes a for great fuel air bomb, one could also argue that running fuel through the blower isn't so great for the rotor bearings.

One should always remember that you get just exactly what you pay for. Pay less and you will certainly get less. It's a universal constant.
 

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Fuel air bomb???? Never happened, never will.

It is easier to tune because the engine runs on the stock injectors for startup, warmup, and normal driving. The URD 7th injector system only is active when the engine is in boost controlling knock and fuel as needed. You are only tuning the boosted regions and it works very well. Tuning is a breeze compared to our standard 6 injector kit.

It will work on any 5vz without a EGR system. The URD 7th injector mount installs in the port that the EGR system does if the engine is equiped with one. It works on both the 1st and 2nd Gen superchargers.

Installation is easier, you do not have to remove the supercharger and swap out the original injectors. This one just bolts on to the supercharger. It also comes with the needed 190 LPH fuel pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Breathegood said:
There are a couple of bennefits to this kit. One is that it is easier to tune one additional injector than six larger ones. The other bennefit is that it is like the TRD 7th kit plus the URD AIT all in one package for less than the cost of the URD upgrade kit with 6 injectors. One could argue the intercooling effect of running the seventh injector is also a big plus.

I have been waiting for URD to release this kit for several months now, and you tease me with a link that when I click gives me a page that says product not found!
The link works for me just fine? Maybe it was down when you clicked on it? I can understand how the tuning this setup would be much more simple, also it would eliminate the most difficult parts of tuning being the startup open to closed loop transition, and closed loop fuel trims. But im pleased and will stick with my original fuel kit with the FTC-E and six larger injectors with water/meth being sprayed through the charger. Once you can tune the fuel kit you have learned the basics of tuning any fuel injected and boosted vehicle. So when I go to a stand alone setup in the future for massive hp Ill have a good basic understanding!
 

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will it work on t-100?
 

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Yeah yeah yeah. Gasoline + oxygen isn't explosive. Haven't you ever seen a blower blow at the drags for Christ's sake. One back fire and kaboom, get real. Then there is still the fact that Both Eaton and Magnuson told me that it's not such a good idea to put fuel through the thing.

Of course it's easier to install and it's cheaper but there is still that old adage of you get what you pay for. That by the way is exactly why TRD went the 7th route. It's cheaper and allows more margin for profit. If they have a 7th and you have a 7th why should people buy from you? If anyone has trouble yanking the blower, they've got no damn businesses poking around in there in the first place. It's not like rocket science.

If the tuning is any different it's a tweak box and/or software thing. Either that or you have been selling too large of an injector with the other kit. In the end, fuel and timing maps are fuel and timing maps. As long as the injectors are properly sized, the source of the fuel is irrelevant except in this case you have a choice of running a wet system where fuel can wind up in unpredictable places at unpredictable times or it can be introduced at the intake valves exactly where it should be unless you have direct injection. How about latency? Answer that one. I know it's small but it's still there.

I understand you're trying to sell stuff, Steve but don't be getting yourself down to TRD's level which provided you the opportunity to get your start in the first place. That only works for a little while then the piper comes back wanting his pay. In past I've advocated that a lot of people seek you and your company out but that can change if you start letting marketing and money weigh more into what you are about. That's TRD's gig. Next thing I guess you'll be reselling Tornadoes and TB spacers. LOL JK
 

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^^^OMG do people on this forum actually believe you know what you are talking about?^^^

Haven't you ever seen a blower blow at the drags for Christ's sake. One back fire and kaboom, get real.
Do you know why blowers blow up on drag race engines? 100% of the time its because the fuel mixture is to lean for conditions when the Nitrous is introduced. Show me where he advocates using Nitrous with this mod.


Both Eaton and Magnuson told me that it's not such a good idea to put fuel through the thing.
Magnusson is made by Eaton, chances are they will say the same thing.


or it can be introduced at the intake valves exactly where it should be unless you have direct injection.
Direct injection is an injector inside the combustion chamber, and as far as I know, no aftermarket company sells a kit to install an injector in the combustion chamber.


How about latency? Answer that one. I know it's small but it's still there.
OMG its a street car, wait scratch that ITS A TRUCK NOT A RACE ENGINE!!!


That's TRD's gig. Next thing I guess you'll be reselling Tornadoes and TB spacers. LOL JK
To even utter Tornados and this guys complicated piggy back controllers in the same sentence is an insult, even if you were just kidding.

If there is a desire for his 7th injector kit and it does something his other kits dont do then I say Im all for it. But for you to berate his products like you are the authority in all things pressurized is a gross over statement of your knowledge on the subject.

Maybe this system is less subject to the factory ECU re-learning and un-doing all of the piggy back settings in other designs. Im not 100% sure how this new system works but stating that its a "great fuel air bomb" is just another indication as to how little you know about the entire subject.

Instead of attacking this guys product, I would like to know why you would want to go with this 7th injector VS his other fuel/spark controllers. If its economy, so beit, if its better control, Im all for it, if its to ease the installation, Excellent. But to attack the product and his livelyhood by throwing around ideas that you could blow up your supercharger by installing this product is irresponsible, carless and flat out INCORRECT.
 

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We could sit here and start a pissing contest and throw out all the possible failure modes, or we can go with true life experiences. I have not heard of any supercharged 5vz engine blow up because of an added injector set up. I have personally experienced a back fire on such a set up, without a kaboom. I have also tuned both the URD bigger injector kit, and a TRD 7th injector with a URD AIC controller and I can say the tune is far simpler with the 7th injector. I also haven’t heard of any problems with a TRD 7th injector kit that has cause premature failure to the bearings. I have been spraying water/methanol through the supercharger, and have been doing so for the past 50K miles without any problems. I will be keeping an eye on the bearings, and will address that issue when it arises.
I currently have the URD kit and will be going to the 7th injector soon because of the simplicity of the tune. Not to mention the consistency from run to run(open loop runs). I agree that a fuel map is a fuel map, but when it comes to a stock ECU controlling the fuel delivery with correction factors set to a specific injector size, you will be altering that correction factor a lot and will have to start “correcting” or tuning for everything else you now have shifted(as stated by Gadget). If you are adding fuel via an added injector that is blind to the stock ECU and only comes on when it is needed(fuel starvation in boost) it doesn’t alter all the other setting and corrections made by the stock ECU. This is just my personal experience and my opinion. So take it for what it is worth, FREE advice.
 

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Well, the first kit is on its way to me, ordered it last week. I already put the blower on, heading down to dyno again. I'm doing it in 3 stages. It made 142hp and 178tq stock (SAE numbers). We'll see what it does with just the blower and no fuel kit. I'm running 2 steps down on the plugs and will be monitoring A/F. Once the kit gets here it will go on the dyno again.
 

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look forward to seeing your results

Lightweight said:
Well, the first kit is on its way to me, ordered it last week. I already put the blower on, heading down to dyno again. I'm doing it in 3 stages. It made 142hp and 178tq stock (SAE numbers). We'll see what it does with just the blower and no fuel kit. I'm running 2 steps down on the plugs and will be monitoring A/F. Once the kit gets here it will go on the dyno again.
 

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06reg4x4 said:
will it work on t-100?
If your T-100 does not have a EGR system.

I looked through our information system and it looked to me that all the T-100 trucks had an EGR.

You have seen the pictures on the URD site where the injector mounts. If you just have a block off plate there, our sytem will install fine. If you have a pipe bolted there that allows exhaust to enter the intake, then it will not and our original 6 injector kit would be the one for you.
 

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Dick:

The amount of fuel injected through the blower is a small amount compared to the total. We have looked at this carefully and had everything reviewed by some very high end calibration engineers and the actual air/fuel ratio of the mix passing through the blower is likely to be to lean to be ignitable. The drag cars run all the fuel and air through the blower and most use NOS to make thing louder when they blow.

Originally I was way against using additional injectors, but I got some education and some hands on experience and I know have a totally different opinion. Once we perfected matching injector events to intake events we can optimize fuel distribution, but running it through the blower pretty much takes care of that anyway.

We have been using the additional injector approach for all of our own supercharger kits for the 4.0 and the ones we sold for the 4.7 V8. Then there is the URD 5vz Turbo Port Fueler that solves the fueling problems for the trubo conversions. That system adds 6 additional injectors for a total of 12.

This approach is valid, it works great, provides very consistant repeatable results, and is SO EASY TO TUNE!!!

Why buy ours instead of TRD? Our kit fits both superchargers, and our Calibrators work on all years trucks. TRD has left several applications not addressed. Then their is the biggest reason, ours is end user tunable so you can retune as needed for more boost and other performance modifications. The TRD system is more expensive and you get less for it and they do not include a upgaded fuel pump. We have been marketing a upgrade kit for people that have installed the TRD 7th injector system and that has been a popular kit for us. Now people don't have to spend the $1000 on the TRD system and then a bunch more on our upgrade kit to get it to make some nice power. They can save a lot of money buy just getting it from us in the first place and save a ton of money.

I think we have a good product here that solves the high RPM lean out problem, the High Gear/Low RPM-Ping problem, increases power and is a good value.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Lightweight said:
Well, the first kit is on its way to me, ordered it last week. I already put the blower on, heading down to dyno again. I'm doing it in 3 stages. It made 142hp and 178tq stock (SAE numbers). We'll see what it does with just the blower and no fuel kit. I'm running 2 steps down on the plugs and will be monitoring A/F. Once the kit gets here it will go on the dyno again.
Im very curious to see what gains you see also in steps, most people dont have the patience to dyno after each mod, its just to hard to look at your fuel kit and not install it.

Gadget- Since the first time I heard of the TRD 7th inj. kit, before URD existed, ive wondered why they didnt offer a first gen SC application. When looking at the pics of the URD's first gen. SC 7th injector kit I laughed because my truck has no EGR and I had always wondered what and why TRD didnt use that block off plate for the 7th inj kit for 1st gen SC like you guys do. Seems like a perfect spot for it. Since I dont have EGR, what are your thoughts about using that block off plate as a spot to inject nitrous? Since your kit is spraying fuel there, Im guessing it would be a better place than in front of the throttle body as far as atomization and equal cylinder distribution of the fuel/nos mix. That or I still havent given up on the idea of modifying the Port Fueler as a way to direct port inject a nitrous setup?

Also, I see no possible arguements whatsoever as to how URD's 7th inj. isnt superior to the TRD 7th. Being able to supply adequate fuel is the point of both kits, but TRD still cant directly address the ping, and more fuel without the ability to tune it is no where near worth 1200+$ that TRD wants for there 7th kit. I wonder if the AFR's are still power robbing-ly rich at 10.0:1 in open loop with the TRD 7th inj. installed?
 

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Hehe, yeah I've spent alot of money over the years on dyno time. The way I see it, i'd rather know that something was worth the money vs "seat of the pants". I use track data as well, but you can't beat the dyno to know that your set-up is right and making the power that it should.
 

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VF'N8 said:
I see URD has a new 5vz product on the market, let me just say I love to see new 5vz products being put out. What Im curious about is what are the advantages to this new 7th inj. kit over the older Fuel upgrade kit? Its 100$ cheaper, but adding the extra feul through the extra injector doesnt seem like it would work as well as fueling properly through six correctly sized injectors as in the old kit. Anyone have any ideas?

http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=79_80&products_id=1260518512

Its what I have been saying all this time and now there is Proof that 7th Injector Kit is a better designed kit than the URD's Fuel Kit. :rofl: :banghead:
 

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Dick Foster said:
Now please tell me just how tuning is any easier.
Aside from the point that it makes a for great fuel air bomb, one could also argue that running fuel through the blower isn't so great for the rotor bearings.

One should always remember that you get just exactly what you pay for. Pay less and you will certainly get less. It's a universal constant.
Fuck old man when ar eyou going to get it through your thick head that fuel through blower is fine just( SC on carburated engines).

Don't make me dig up old post of Dave owning your ass :D on this very specific point.

Gadget knows what works and TRD's design works why else would URD do this (hypocritical) product.
 

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Gadget said:
If your T-100 does not have a EGR system.

I looked through our information system and it looked to me that all the T-100 trucks had an EGR.

You have seen the pictures on the URD site where the injector mounts. If you just have a block off plate there, our sytem will install fine. If you have a pipe bolted there that allows exhaust to enter the intake, then it will not and our original 6 injector kit would be the one for you.

Gadget,
Do you know if you can get injector harnesses for OEM injectors from toyota? When I install the urd kit, my buddy cut the oem harnesses too close to the connector. Or is there an adaptor I can use for bosch harness with the toyota injectors?
 

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When are you going to get it through your thick skull that a 7th is an aftermarket band-aid at best. When is the last time that you asked either Eaton or Magnuson yourself rather than parrot someone else's bullshit?

Show me one friggin OEM install with forced induction of any kind, SC or turbo that incorporates this kind of shit. Just one.

Until you start doing some of your own honest research on the topic, do me a favor and just STFU about it. Honestly until you do at least that much, you're just a punk and I don't want to hear from you. You have absolutly nothing original to say and therefore nothing to add. You simply don't have chips enough to play.

Dave never owned anything. In fact we got together for a few beers together before he left town.

Speak of the devil, I kinda expected to see Dave on the board again by now. He's had pleanty of time to settle in his new digs.
 

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And you, the unknown and unnamed with all the bravery to remain totally anonymous, hiding behind your keyboard and monitor with a total of three posts have something to say about anything to or about anyone?

Right!

I think you're what is known as one of those annoying kinda noobs.

Tell me, do you even own the supercharger? Oh that's right I forgot you don't. You're that turbo jackass. I don't think you even own a toyota.
 
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