Warn M8000 or 9.5XP????

12781 Views 63 Replies 15 Participants Last post by hytenor, Apr 7, 2005

adamusmcguy

Discussion Starter · Apr 2, 2005

I know this comes up alot, I had my mind made up on the Warn M8000 after alot of searching on this forum....But a friend just bought the Warn 9.5XP for $768.55!!!!shipped and has it now.. This is no BS I saw the invoice and have an order pending online right now..It's from a huge company not a fly-by-night place.
My Question is does anyone run that big of a winch on there Tacoma? Or is there a need too? With that price it's VERY tempting to go with the 9.5XP....

Any thoughts or comments would be great....

ADAM

41 - 60 of 64 Posts

hytenor

· #41 · Apr 4, 2005

expeditionswest said:
All desertdude was doing was providing another opinion on the subject from a knowledgeable source (Ted is a reseller of the amsteel product). Why the hostility?

because I spent over an hr searching though the forums he posted and reading threads that HE posted only to find absolutely nothing even remotely resembling what he was talking about, in fact, the exact opposite. Heck, even Pirate didn't have anything about a stretching problem associated with Amsteel or any other winch rope for that matter. I did, however, find posts from people I know personally and trust for accurate information who mentioned the little or no stretch characteristics of synthetic winch lines.

If he had an once of credibility he would post some hard facts when he continues to harp on his 3rd-hand info from ONE individual, who, by the way, did not seem to be included in what few Amsteel discussions from either of the forums that were posted.

I gathered from the recommended site that "Ted", if he is the owner, was an amsteel dealer so I figured I would find something about this so-called 'stretching' problem somewhere on the site...nothing there. I don't have to call someone just to get info that I should be able to fine on the web; why waste the $ w/o some previous info on the subject?

I figure this desertdude is either just trying to see if he can set me off or is just a completely clueless prick.

If the latter, I have little use for him, if the former, my hat's off to him

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expeditionswest

· #42 · Apr 4, 2005

Ok, here are the facts:

Amsteel is made from Dyneema® SK-75 HMPE fiber, and is produced by a company named Sampson Rope

Amsteel rope has a maximum recoverable elongation (stretch) percentage of .96% in 30% of tests performed.

The following chart from Sampsons Rope tests, which shows the elongation by load (expressed in inches per 100'):

3/8” Diameter 350 lbs. 700 lbs. 1,500 lbs. 2,500 lbs. 5,000 lbs. 7,000 lbs.
AmSteel-Blue 1.7", 2.7, 4.5, 6.2, 9.9, 12.4

So, in summary, a winch with 100 feet of 3/8" AmSteel-Blue extended with a 7,000 winch pull would stretch 12.4", or just over a foot. Based on that, the AmSteel is a true static solution, with minimal stretch and no stored energy.

Overall, I am very impressed.

Now, Hytenor,

Try to be a little less emotional, and more empirical. I doubt you would say things like "shut up" and "clueless prick" to someone's face that you don’t even know; so why do it on a form where people are trying to solve problems and learn a little about this great hobby. Why is it that people tend to treat others so poorly when hiding behind a keyboard???

So getting beyond all this; If you ever get down to AZ (or So Cal where my business is), let me know. We can get out on the trail, and use these cool trucks we work so hard to build.

I would certainly like to run a few trails in your area. The Dusy Ershim comes to mind

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hytenor

· #43 · Apr 4, 2005

expeditionswest said:
Now, Hytenor,

Try to be a little less emotional, and more empirical. I doubt you would say things like "shut up" and "clueless prick" to someone's face that you don’t even know; so why do it on a form where people are trying to solve problems and learn a little about this great hobby. Why is it that people tend to treat others so poorly when hiding behind a keyboard???

So getting beyond all this; If you ever get down to AZ (or So Cal where my business is), let me know. We can get out on the trail, and use these cool trucks we work so hard to build. I would certainly like to run a few trails in your area. The Dusy Ershim comes to mind

actually, I thought I was quite civil considering what I could have replied with after reading everything he suggested

did I miss you at AZ rocks?

expeditionswest

· #44 · Apr 4, 2005

hytenor said:
did I miss you at AZ rocks?

I was at AZRocks

parked in front of the big canvas tent trailer

I led the trail run to the Coke Ovens on Saturday (during all of the rain...)

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hytenor

· #45 · Apr 4, 2005 (Edited)

expeditionswest said:
I was at AZRocks parked in front of the big canvas tent trailer

I led the trail run to the Coke Ovens on Saturday (during all of the rain...)

well, shoot! I missed the swamp (camp) and stayed at the motel

I got to run Martinez and Hackberry and rode with SA drivers for Axle Alley and Ajax.

you going to Takeover?

STOMPER

· #46 · Apr 5, 2005

Ok now everyone calm down and take deep breaths....... All better? Now I am A member of Peak Empire and Know Ted well. Now weather Amsteel stretches or now I dont have a clue cause mine is in a box in the grarge waiting on me to build a bumper. But Ted wouldnt steer someone wrong on purpose I do know he has a shit load of rope on his Junk. Who cares if it stretches it can always be cut down on the drum end and if you do that much winching YOU AIN'T GOING TO BE SPOOLING IT UP EVERY TIME ANYHOW! It would eat up too much time and battery. Ill pass this post on to Ted and if he comes on here so be it.

Thanks for the heads up Chris.

hytenor

· #47 · Apr 5, 2005

STOMPER said:
Ok now everyone calm down and take deep breaths....... All better? Now I am A member of Peak Empire and Know Ted well. Now weather Amsteel stretches or now I dont have a clue cause mine is in a box in the grarge waiting on me to build a bumper. But Ted wouldnt steer someone wrong on purpose I do know he has a shit load of rope on his Junk. Who cares if it stretches it can always be cut down on the drum end and if you do that much winching YOU AIN'T GOING TO BE SPOOLING IT UP EVERY TIME ANYHOW! It would eat up too much time and battery. Ill pass this post on to Ted and if he comes on here so be it.

Thanks for the heads up Chris.

Thanks, since the stretch factor of the line is so low, something like a foot or less depending on what figure you use, I just couldn't see a 15' change in a 125' rope. Hell, who would buy something that stretched that much? LOL
As for not getting it wound back on the drum...hopefully Ted will chime in

desertdude

· #48 · Apr 5, 2005 (Edited)

Thanks Scott and Chris for posting, So is it safe to say that Ted was talking about spooling and not stretching? I emailed Ted and asked him to clarify.

hytenor - Thank you for the fine welcome. As you can see I ponied up for the over 100 beans to support this site. I am sure you run into plenty of dumb-ass posters on this site. I figure you have little patients for anything but the facts. Sorry I could not provide you with any. Only what I remember Ted mentioning to me on the phone when I bought the rope. Spooling or stretching I did not make the distinction. The fact still remains that Ted had extra rope wrapped around his bumper, and like I said in my post, to avoid this I ordered 15 ft less.

I thought this was a place to discuss information, learn, and also share the passion of Tacoma's - Let us do our best to keep this credo

cb77DEMELLO

· #49 · Apr 5, 2005

hytenor said:
believe me, we loaded those suckers with grease on the initial install and again the 2nd time. I'm hoping with the zerks and the new plated washers they will stay quiet longer.

Someone was telling me today that your having problems with the uniballs? Can you e-mail me what's happening? I'm really curious.

hytenor

· #50 · Apr 5, 2005

cb77DEMELLO said:
Someone was telling me today that your having problems with the uniballs? Can you e-mail me what's happening? I'm really curious.

you got mail

hytenor

· #51 · Apr 5, 2005

desertdude said:
Thanks Scott and Chris for posting, So is it safe to say that Ted was talking about spooling and not stretching? I emailed Ted and asked him to clarify.

hytenor - Thank you for the fine welcome. As you can see I ponied up for the over 100 beans to support this site. I am sure you run into plenty of dumb-ass posters on this site. I figure you have little patients for anything but the facts. Sorry I could not provide you with any. Only what I remember Ted mentioning to me on the phone when I bought the rope. Spooling or stretching I did not make the distinction. The fact still remains that Ted had extra rope wrapped around his bumper, and like I said in my post, to avoid this I ordered 15 ft less.

I thought this was a place to discuss information, learn, and also share the passion of Tacoma's - Based on your input - I guess I was mistaken. My apologies for intruding on "your empire"

I will admit my choice of closing to post 34 was out of line and things escalated from there. Your responses, however, weren't much better especially after I followed your advice and read each and every one of the threads pertaining to Amsteel Blue on the two sites you posted along with Pirate only to find info in direct conflict with your position. I pointed this out and you respond as if I had done nothing and said nothing. What was I supposed to think? There was nothing from Ted on any of the threads either. I come back informing you of my findings and all I get is 'well, Ted says this...' rather than something concrete to check out like a particular thread, post, spec sheet or anything other than 'call Ted'.

Go back and read all of our varrious posts in this thread and put youself in my place. I asked you to provide something for me to go on; you repeatedly refer to Ted and what he told you rather than posting anything useful to research. I don't know Ted, couldn't find any posts by him pertaining to the question at hand (or anything else for that matter). I did find posts from people I know and contacted them. James got right back to me establishing that at least Ted exists, thanks Stomper

Frankly, your attitide came across as a complete ass who was just trying to start some trouble in a thread where several people had questions about winch line and you were pushing erroneous information about the rope stretching 15 feet. I'm surmising that was not your intention now.
After perusing your wheeling pics it is obvious that you are no noob to wheeling who quite possibly has more experience than I off road.

I will take part of the blame for an initial overreaction but I stand by my requests for solid info and not snotty come-backs with hear-say from someone hardly anyone here even knew. If Amsteel Blue had a stretching problem of 15 feet in a 125' line then people needed to know about that. But, if that information was bogus then it needed to be rectified.

your closing remark in your last post is entirely unjustified and juvenile, IMO. Shannon might have something to say about the "empire" as well. This is his site, period.

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desertdude

· #52 · Apr 5, 2005

Here me speaking in a super relaxed tone of voice... I've been lurking around here for quite a while. It wasn't until I decided to modify my second Tacoma that I joined up. I am too busy to be bust-in balls on this or any other site. ( Not my style) When it comes to facts and details my musician brain kicks in and I speak in colors. I apologize for that. When my builder brain kicks in I can be very precise. I choose to use the wrong brain. When you get to know me personally you will find I have the patients of a saint ( ask Jason Demello) easy to get along with, and I am a team player. I met Scott for the first time at AZRocks 05. I was there with another group for a trail clean up at the coke ovens the day Scott led his group. Sorry to miss you there at the swamp. I travel to CA regularly for projects ..lets hook up eyeball to eyeball and tighten up this new friendship. I agree the closing remark are juvenile and will edit it out.

Apologies to adamusmcguy for the sidetrack

OK now back to the winch topic = I hope that buying 85 feet with a 50 ft extension line , leaving room to spool it was a good idea. I look forward to getting my XP9000 winch off the table and on to the truck this week, load up the synth rope, and get out and have fun.

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expeditionswest

· #53 · Apr 5, 2005

desertdude said:
OK now back to the winch topic = I hope that buying 85 feet with a 50 ft extension line , leaving room to spool it was a good idea. I look forward to getting my XP9000 winch off the table and on to the truck this week, load up the synth rope, and get out and have fun.

I think it was a great idea. Side loading of the rope is an issue I have found with long mud and snow pulls. The shorter cable will be more manageable, yet you still have a 50' extension if you really need it.

I have only found one time in 15 years of 4wheeling that I had to have an 80'+ cable, and that was on an ice covered hill climb. We couldnt disconnect the winch to reposition it, because the Jeep would start to slide back down the hill again.

Now I carry a small Black Rat handwinch for back-up, which also helps in solo recovery where you need to pull forward AND sideways at the same time (like if you slide off the trail).

For the most part, we have it easy in the southwest, with VERY short pulls over a rock or ledge. Actually, I spend more time clearing trail with the winch than anything

The most intense winching sessions I have ever done was on my two trips to Alaska. Talk about Camel Trophy style...

hytenor

· #54 · Apr 5, 2005

desertdude said:
Here me speaking in a super relaxed tone of voice... I've been lurking around here for quite a while. It wasn't until I decided to modify my second Tacoma that I joined up. I am too busy to be bust-in balls on this or any other site. ( Not my style) When it comes to facts and details my musician brain kicks in and I speak in colors. I apologize for that. When my builder brain kicks in I can be very precise. I choose to use the wrong brain. When you get to know me personally you will find I have the patients of a saint ( ask Jason Demello) easy to get along with, and I am a team player. I met Scott for the first time at AZRocks 05. I was there with another group for a trail clean up at the coke ovens the day Scott led his group. Sorry to miss you there at the swamp. I travel to CA regularly for projects ..lets hook up eyeball to eyeball and tighten up this new friendship. I agree the closing remark are juvenile and will edit it out.

Apologies to adamusmcguy for the sidetrack

OK now back to the winch topic = I hope that buying 85 feet with a 50 ft extension line , leaving room to spool it was a good idea. I look forward to getting my XP9000 winch off the table and on to the truck this week, load up the synth rope, and get out and have fun.

sounds good, next AZ rocks?
Since I'm a singer I should have been able to 'read' your musician track, sorry about that.

I run 100' on my winch for same reason Scott mentioned, side pulls, makes a big difference. I have had to do some long pulls that required a few straps added to the line so intend on getting a 50 or 75' extention line.

98 Taco

· #55 · Apr 5, 2005

Chris, you are so emotional, aren't you? LOL
jk

hytenor

· #56 · Apr 5, 2005

98 Taco said:
Chris, you are so emotional, aren't you? LOL
jk

:xcrybaby: :xcrybaby: :xcrybaby: :xcrybaby:

calamaridog

· #57 · Apr 5, 2005

hytenor and desertdude,

You both owe me a beer for making me read this crap:flipoff3:

I'm trying to read about winches!

grillmasterp

· #58 · Apr 6, 2005

desertdude said:
OK now back to the winch topic = I hope that buying 85 feet with a 50 ft extension line , leaving room to spool it was a good idea.

This is a good idea- especially since the synth is so easy to handle- keeping extensions will facilitate recoveries- since that is less that has to be unspooled from the drum-

However..YOU did start this mess. Neener neener neener.lol

desertdude said:
It is said ...that if you use your winch with the rope it will eventually stretch another 15 feet.

grillmasterp

· #59 · Apr 6, 2005

adamusmcguy said:
I know this comes up alot, I had my mind made up on the Warn M8000 after alot of searching on this forum....But a friend just bought the Warn 9.5XP for $768.55!!!!shipped and has it now.. This is no BS I saw the invoice and have an order pending online right now..It's from a huge company not a fly-by-night place.
My Question is does anyone run that big of a winch on there Tacoma? Or is there a need too? With that price it's VERY tempting to go with the 9.5XP....

Any thoughts or comments would be great....
ADAM

I hope you pulled the trigger on this deal!-
As soon as you posted - I found the 9.5Xp for $679 at 4wpw.com...the price has risen to $879 now
Good find!

desertdude

· #60 · Apr 7, 2005

AZ-ROCKS 06 it is - Beer included :xbeer2:

I stand totally corrected on my statement as far as stretching - But read the part about thickening - this is where I got confused :banghead:

From Ted's email to me -

The rope doesn't stretch, it gets a bit thicker.. So if your limited on
space, don't get the max amount that will fit from the get go.. But that is
only after much, much Use and abuse of the rope.
Thanks,
Ted

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